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Karl Knisley




PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Need some Knecht suspension advice         Reply with quote

Hello
Does this suspension baldric thingy,work (period-ish wise) with a, Albion Knecht?


Regards to all



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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nope. It'd be akin to painting a Ferrari with a rattle can. Assuming you have a scabbard (please let it be a proper wood core scabbard,) all you need is a long, narrow top-grain leather belt and historical buckle type--either homemade or bought from Historic Entreprises, etc. You can have a belt cut at any leather shop. If you're not more than about a 38" waist you can just modify an English lead from a pet store. Either way, you just add a buckle and tie the typical scabbard knot around the scabbard. If you can get a very long piece you can use the basket-weave knot seen in many images of the period (or use a piece to make the basket knot and just run the belt through the knot). This route is simpler, cheaper and far more historically appropriate..
-Sean

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Karl Knisley




PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2011 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello
Thats the thing.I dont have a scabbard for it. I was thinking, that half scabbard thing, instead of $1000 for a scabbard.

Regards
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Given the quality of the pieces you tend to own, you should try to make a scabbard or two. It's not that hard. As for the Knecht--better to just carry the piece than to put it bare in a rig like that. Somebody will get cut or stabbed, for sure. In fact, I wouldn't have that thing naked outside around people.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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T. Arndt




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PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2011 2:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree. People wearing sharps in those kind of exposed scabbard/fogs terrifies me. Something as simple as slipping on wet ground could lead to a horrible accident.

Where they used historically?
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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

T. Arndt wrote:
I agree. People wearing sharps in those kind of exposed scabbard/fogs terrifies me. Something as simple as slipping on wet ground could lead to a horrible accident.

Where they used historically?


I recall a woodcut, i believe, of a landsknecht wearing a kreigmesser in a similar sort of rig (no scabbard, but suspended at the hip). I could be wrong...as I couldn't seem to find it in my brief search.
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Dustin R. Reagan





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PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 8:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is what I was thinking of:



Ok, now I'm not certain that the blade is bare. It could just be a very form-fitting scabard, with no chape?
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dustin R. Reagan wrote:
Here is what I was thinking of:

Ok, now I'm not certain that the blade is bare. It could just be a very form-fitting scabard, with no chape?


Either way I'm liking that knot on the top and am going to use it on the next Knecht scabbard I do if the customer is willing. It will be on a scabbard though, as was noted previously carrying that thing around with a bare blade around a crowd would give me the heebie jeebies.

Karl, if you don't want to put the money in a scabbard (the horror Wink ) then you might consider having a sheath made for it. I suspect that's actually what's in Dustin's photo.

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 8:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's the typical suspension for the Katzbalger and other short-bladed weapons of the period and culture. It's a specialized knot, either of a piece with the belt or only on the scabbard itself, with the belt passing through it. The saber/messer shown here is in its scabbard. The knot covers most the integral scabbards of the by-knives but the tops of those knives can be seen below the nagel, in the gap between the top of the scabbard and the top of the knot. Tod has covered the creation of such knots in a couple of threads, most recently in his Katzbalger thread. Not as difficult as it looks Big Grin
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 9:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Years ago I had interpreted that woodcut (which is not a period illustration, I might add) as a messer not in a scabbard. I was corrected. It would have had a scabbard.
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JE Sarge
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PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Karl Knisley wrote:
Hello
Thats the thing.I dont have a scabbard for it. I was thinking, that half scabbard thing, instead of $1000 for a scabbard.

Regards


A quality, historically-accurate scabbard does not have to cost $1000. You can get a base model wooden core scabbard for around $200 at CSS: http://www.customswordshoppe.com/shoppe/produ...dq9ma0jhh0

Then design your suspension around the scabbard. Or, just have CSS do the suspension for a little bit more. This is IF you are considering buying a scabbard.

I will say that learning how to make them is greatly rewarding. When I am at home, I enjoy making my own scabbards. It's easier than it looks and once you know how to do it, you can save more money for swords and even increase the value of your collection by doing your own scabbards.

Here is a good tutorial for you:

http://www.yeoldegaffers.com/project_scabbard.asp

Good luck on your quest, sir... Happy

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Dustin R. Reagan





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PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
It would have had a scabbard.


Sean Flynt wrote:
The saber/messer shown here is in its scabbard.


Ah, good to hear that this seems to be the consensus.
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Karl Knisley




PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello
Thanks for the input, all-ya`ll :-) I`am thinking, your`re right ,about a bare blade.I`d hate to sit down, and stab somebody in the butt :-) The CSS route sounds good. I`am a welder, so wood is my kryptonite. I would like to try my hand at the belt though.
Regards
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Aug, 2011 6:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Tod has covered the creation of such knots in a couple of threads, most recently in his Katzbalger thread. Not as difficult as it looks Big Grin


Thanks for pointing this out, it will make life a lot easier, it looks very simple when it's explained, not so much from looking at the picture above. Happy Plus I checked up on Tod's katzbalger thread at the same time. <Shakes head> Simply amazing work...

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