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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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 Posted: Sun 27 May, 2007 3:35 am Post subject: |
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 That are really a sharp beauty, hopefully i can save money for one of them before they run out of limits.
The fuller looks deep, is it a one side fuller on the blade?
a picture of the backside of the hilt would be nice to. 
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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W. R. Reynolds
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| Posted: Mon 28 May, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: |
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I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now to scrape up enough to get one.
What is the earliest one could expect to be able to document such a weapon. I do late 15th century around 1470.
Bill
"No matter who wins the rat race.......they are still a rat."
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Howard Waddell
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 29 May, 2007 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote: | That are really a sharp beauty, hopefully i can save money for one of them before they run out of limits.
The fuller looks deep, is it a one side fuller on the blade?
a picture of the backside of the hilt would be nice to. |
Here you go, Patrik!
Remember, this is available in right or left hand configuration.
Best,
Howy
Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
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Martin Forrester
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| Posted: Tue 29 May, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: |
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W. R, Reynolds, this is my problem too, i am told the woodcut on Albion's website is early 16th, but I cannot get around the Germanness of messers. I need English pictorial evidence of a hand & half Falchion, and so far I haven't found any...
Oh, lets just pull out our swords and start whacking at each other, that'll solve everything!
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Brent Rattan
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| Posted: Tue 29 May, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Martin, there is a Tudor period Flemish hand and a half saber in the Tower of London adjacent to the armor of Henry VIII. The saber has a Tudor rose etched onto it and the implication I took was that it was possibly used or owned by Henry.
Follow the below link to a post (and pics) I put up some time ago regarding said piece (which is one of my all time favorites)
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1523&highlight=
As for this Knecht, my oh my, I can't wait to get mine.
D B
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz
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| Posted: Tue 29 May, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Well, it seems to me Albion is getting closer to ... maybe ... creating a " saber " ... ? Take that
honker of a blade, guys, choppy choppy chop down that long handle, take a look at some basic
saber grip / hilt designs and awaaaaaaay you go ...
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 29 May, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz wrote: | Well, it seems to me Albion is getting closer to ... maybe ... creating a " saber " ... ? Take that
honker of a blade, guys, choppy choppy chop down that long handle, take a look at some basic
saber grip / hilt designs and awaaaaaaay you go ...
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...We share a dream.
Let me just say that ;-)
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Tue 29 May, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'll second Peter's advice about studying artwork. Check Dürer and Cranach (Elder and Younger) in particular. Depictions of the martyrdom of saint Barbara often depict a messer or falchion, showing the scabbard in detail. Cranach's (1510--see below) is most famous, but I've seen better in terms of representing the scabbard/suspension. Most messer/hanger illustrations I've seen are less detailed but show the systems Peter described. The second image below is typical of what I've seen in other illustrations from the late 15th-early 16th c. (L. Cranach the Younger, 1544).
If you want to make a suspension, you could use a dog leash as the raw material. Notice how narrow suspensions are in this period. Seems counterintuitive, but you'll see it in use with all kinds of swords, big and small alike.
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Attachment: 68.91 KB
Last edited by Sean Flynt on Wed 30 May, 2007 1:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Sean Flynt
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Sean Flynt
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 29 May, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean Flynt wrote: | | A closer view of that wonderful scabbard system somebody made for his PJ messer, then I'll stop hijacking this thread with discussions of messer scabbards: |
Sean,
I really do not think this is hijacking. On the contrary: thank you for posting period art work!
I think that is a valuable input to the discussion.
Keep it up, please!
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Michael Ahrens
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| Posted: Tue 29 May, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: a messer scabbard |
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i think i will answer this scabbard question. i will just call tomorrow and say, Mike add a Campaign line scabbard to my order.
Mike
| Peter Johnsson wrote: | | Sean Flynt wrote: | | A closer view of that wonderful scabbard system somebody made for his PJ messer, then I'll stop hijacking this thread with discussions of messer scabbards: |
Sean,
I really do not think this is hijacking. On the contrary: thank you for posting period art work!
I think that is a valuable input to the discussion.
Keep it up, please! |
Mike Ahrens
http://www.selohaar.org/
Staten Island German Martial Arts (S.I.G.M.A.)
http://www.sigmanewyork.webs.com/
Member of the 1st Universal Church of St. John Cantius Garand, Reformed (Gas Port)
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Wed 30 May, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Howard Waddell wrote: | | Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote: | That are really a sharp beauty, hopefully i can save money for one of them before they run out of limits.
The fuller looks deep, is it a one side fuller on the blade?
a picture of the backside of the hilt would be nice to. |
Here you go, Patrik!
Remember, this is available in right or left hand configuration.
Best,
Howy |
OH Boy Man!!
Now i have a really strange smile 
Tusen Tack Howy.
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Blaz Berlec
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| Posted: Wed 30 May, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Some messer and falchion images from Central European artwork 1400 - 1500. I hope Imareal server will show the images, otherwise I will remove the post. Sorry for this photo rich post, I know it's really unfair for bandwidth challenged.
So, here they are. Some of them are in scabbards, other not. Most are single handed, but there are some two handed variants.
Oh, and the first one is my photo from France, Colmar, mid 15. century. Enjoy the photos, and sorry for this off topic (maybe it would be better in it's own topic?)
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Kreuzigung Christi, 1469 ; 1480 ; Wien ; Österreich ; Wien ; Schottenstift
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Judaskuss;Gefangennahme Christi, 1465 ; 1475 ; Wartberg an der Krems ; Österreich ; Oberösterreich ; Pfarrkirche
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Hl. Martin teilt seinen Mantel, 1435 ; 1445 ; Salzburg ; Österreich ; Salzburg ; Museum Carolino Augusteum ; IN 173\32
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Ermordung des Hl. Thomas Becket, 1460 ; 1465 ; Graz ; Österreich ; Steiermark ; Landesmuseum Joanneum ; IN 326
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Gefangennahme des Hl. Oswald, 1470 ; 1475 ; Wien ; Österreich ; Wien ; Österreichische Galerie ; IN 4948
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Martyrium des Hl. Sigismund und seiner Familie, 1480 ; 1490 ; Innsbruck ; Österreich ; Tirol ; Landesmuseum Ferdinandeum ; IN 1950
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Bethlehemitischer Kindermord, 1475 ; 1485 ; Salzburg-Morzg ; Österreich ; Salzburg ; Pfarrkirche
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Hl. Georg vor dem Richter, 1460 ; 1470 ; Gerlamoos ; Österreich ; Kärnten ; Filialkirche St. Georg
Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Blaz Berlec
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| Posted: Wed 30 May, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Continued:
Enthauptung des Hl. Georg, 1460 ; 1470 ; Gerlamoos ; Österreich ; Kärnten ; Filialkirche St. Georg
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Abraham und Melchisedek, 1470 ; 1480 ; Thörl ; Österreich ; Kärnten ; Pfarrkirche
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Gefangennahme Christi, 1470 ; 1480 ; Thörl ; Österreich ; Kärnten ; Pfarrkirche
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Kreuzigung Christi, 1475 ; 1485 ; Klerant ; Italien ; Südtirol ; Filialkirche St. Nikolaus
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Hl. Barbara, 1470 ; 1480 ; Pukanec ; Slowakei ; Pfarrkirche
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Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Brian M
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| Posted: Wed 30 May, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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I might be mistaken, but didn't the original concept include fullered steel grip panels running from the grip cap to the guard?
Brian M
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B. Stark
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 30 May, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian M wrote: | I might be mistaken, but didn't the original concept include fullered steel grip panels running from the grip cap to the guard?
Brian M |
Can you not see the grip fuller in the above picture? It is exactly as you describe.
"Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd"
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Howard Waddell
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 30 May, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian M wrote: | I might be mistaken, but didn't the original concept include fullered steel grip panels running from the grip cap to the guard?
Brian M |
Hi Brian!
This is the original concept art (now found on http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...photos.htm ):
It may have looked like fullered steel grip panels, but it was always intended to be fullered wood scales on each side of the grip - ground to match the fuller of the pommel and guard.
Sorry for the confusion!
Best,
Howy
Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
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Sean Flynt
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 30 May, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Blaz!
This puts the Knecht very well in perspecitve. The artwork shows much that can be food for thought and inspiration.
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This is a standard topic
