[Chad Arnow]

I know this may be tough to answer, but I figured it was worth a shot. How tightly did historic wood-cored scabbards fit swords during the Middle Ages?

Modern scabbard makers often try for a secure fit with no rattling and a pretty close fit but still with a relatively easy draw. Some even like the scabbards to be tight enough that the rig can be held upside down and the sword stays in.

I know we don't have too many scabbards that survive and it may be hard to know based on their current condition, but how did historical scabbards fit? Do we have enough examples to know what the range would be, since some would likely fit more tightly than others?

More directly, if I decide to make my own scabbards how militant do I have to be with a super-exact fit if I want it to be somewhat accurate? Are we being more retentive and precise that our forbears or are we upholding their traditions with a close, no-slop fit?

[M. Eversberg II]

I don't think they would fall out if it was upside down.

Inside the (better, if not all) scabbard's core was sheep's wool; the oil (Lanolin??) keeps the blade clean and rust-free.

M.

[Chad Arnow]

[M. Eversberg II]

[Jared Smith]

On tightness of fit, I seem to recall some period instruction about "grasp the mount of the scabbard firmly with one hand and pull the hilt". This suggests a little bit of force being required in my opinion.

Of my own scabbards, my children have great difficulty pulling the sword out and adult strangers give me a puzzled look when I hand them the sword in scabbard and invite them to draw it to inspect it. It really only takes a few pounds of force (preferrably between 5 to 10 lbs force) to withdraw one. I have no fear of a sword comming out simply from being turned upside down or comming loose in travel and actually like this snug fit.

I have used heavy wool flannel fabric (100% wool) from Fabric.com. I like the taupe or camel colors as these seem to have the least amount of dye. I fit the cores to compress the flannel to about 50% of its original thickness near the mouth. This ends up working pretty well over time as it loosens or takes a "compressed set" a with oil and age. The unpleasant aspect of doing this with flannel is that I have found it necessary to extend the cloth out of the mouth and to turn it over the exterior like a cuff. It will tend to get caught and tear loose during sword insertion if the wool cloth is only inside the core.

[Chad Arnow]

I was to find more information on this topic. Does anyone else have any thoughts or documentation on how tightly historical wood-cored scabbards fit?

[Allen Andrews]

I will add a "thought" which isn't supported by documentation, so I hope I won't irritate anyone. I have more than once heard reference to "loosening the sword in the scabbard" prior to combat. That would indicate a desire to overcome some intial friction or resistance so that the sword could be drawn swiftly. Granted I read mostly fiction, but some fiction authors who have referred to loosening are pretty decent historians themselves (such as J.R.R. Tolkien)

Again, it is just a thought

[T.L. Johnson]

A loose fit that permits movement (say, while on horseback) would have contributed to dulling the edge, would it not?

A tight fit seems intuitively beneficial not only for the secured position of the sword, but to prevent damage to the blade under continuous movement.

[Bryce Felperin]

[Chad Arnow]

Those theories all make intuitive sense and use sound logic to the modern mind. However, do we have any documentation on historic scabbards? I know a few survive. Are they too fragile to check fit? Would the materials have shrunk/expanded over the years?

Oakeshott mentioned that the disputed Black Prince sword fit the remains of the scabbard at Canterbury Cathedral. I wish I knew his definition of "fit."

The sword of St. Maurice in Turin has a surviving scabbard. Does anyone know if the sword has been sheathed in recent memory? The Vienna St. Maurice may have a scabbard, too, though perhaps from a later period. What about it?

Do we have any evidence besides modern anecdotes and theories? It's possible we don't, which would be unfortunate.

[Peter Johnsson]

It is a rare thing to find a medieval sword in pristine condition. Even more so, one that has its original scabbard surviving and in such shape that it will tell anything useful.
I guess this is why you do not see these kind of details published: there has really not been much research in this field.

I have seen only a small number (6-10?) of well preserved medieval swords with original scabbards. They have been two part solid wood with leather, or thin veneers with leather (some 3-5 layers on each side of the blade: paper thin veneer).

In one case there might have been a textile lining inside the wood, and this was a 16th C scabbard for a H&H sword.

I was not allowed to try the fit between sword and scabbard of the Sword of Saint Maurice in Turino. It looked like it could still fit snugly.
The sword might have suffered a falling accident at one time.
Better not try rather than facing a cold sweat situation...

The fit was quite tight in those cases you could actually try it. My strong impression is that you would have to apply some mild force in the pull of the first inch or two: then the blade would slide loose.
A good fit means the sword can hang hilt downwards without sliding out of its scabbard, at least should a sudden jolt or blow not make the sword come loose, gliding up from its resting place. That could be embarrasing and pretty dangerous.

[Chad Arnow]

Peter,
Thanks so much for the info; this is just the kind of info I was looking for. It would be nice to have more research in that area, though it's quite logical that there wouldn't be much if anything to go on for a variety of reasons.

Wouldn't it be nice if scabbards could be analyzed in such a way (perhaps x-ray) to be able to compare their inner volume to the dimensions of the blade without damaging scabbard or blade? I would also like to see more info about thickness of the core. However, I'm sure there are much more important aspects of the sword to study than those.

[Peter Johnsson]

[George Hill]

[Richard Fay]

Hello all!

I know this isn't exactly the same thing as sword scabbards, but what about the dagger sheaths that were worn horizontally? Assuming that these were constructed the same way as sword scabbards, this would indicate a fairly tight fit for the dagger in the sheath. The dagger obviously didn't fall out if worn in a horizontal manner. It may be a good assumption, if not too much of a stretch, to believe that sword scabbards would be made as tight.

There is a period illumination of combat between the Earl of Warwick and Sir P. Malacat with poleaxes that shows on of the combatants with a dagger at his side. The dagger's handle points groundward, indicating a pretty tight fit. The broken dagger on the effigy of Peter Kreglinger also appears to have been held at a slight downward angle from the horizontal. What may be a broken ballock dagger on the effigy of Kunz Haberkorn is held in a similar fashion.

Maybe daggers sheaths were a bit different than sword scabbards, but if they were constructed in a similar fashion, it may be used as indirect evidence that swords fit fairly tightly in scabbards. It was done with daggers, anyway!

Stay safe!

[Jean Thibodeau]

Richard;

A dagger being lighter in most cases than most swords might not need as tight a fit to not fall out if held upsidedown ?

With modern made scabbards I find that even a perfectly fitted scabbard can become loose or too tight depending on wear or
shrinkage and keeping a scabbard fit perfect must have meant some maintenance.

[Richard Fay]

[Nate C.]

what about the armory at Graz (I hope I got that right)? From pictures I've seen there are a fairly substantial number of swords present there with scabbards intact. While they may be the wrong period, has anyone checked those? Maybe the museum staff could answer the question if asked?

Cheers,

[Charles D. Prokopp]

I guess I should jump in, here.
To introduce myself, as this is my first post: I am a knife and scabbard maker in Tucson, Arizona. So I can make a few informed comments. As you all know, a quality blade usually tapers in two directions...across the width and through the thickness along the length of the blade. I try to make the first couple inches at the mouth of a scabbard a fairly snug fit. A quick tug, and the entire blade comes unwedged (Is that a word?) and pops right out. Those first few inches a reinforced with brass or a band of heavy leather for safety, so you can grasp it there without risking a cut palm and fingers.
Wool linings can be works of art! What was used was a short shearling sheepskin, the wool no more than 1/4" long. That way, the scabbard wouldn't look like some sort of hide-covered timber. The skin was cuffed and glued over the outside of the sheath with the fleece shaved off the skin, held in place by the locket and leather cover. In use, the blade was heavily oiled and slid in and out of the scabbard a few times to load the wool with lubricant. For sea-farers and those living in wetter climates than I do, this was the best way to carry a sword.

[Jeroen Zuiderwijk]