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Hank Reinhardt
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 7:57 am    Post subject: Mythbusters         Reply with quote

Several months ago I was contacted by Michael Bell, a contact rep for Mythbusters. He wanted information regarding Japanese swords and cutting a machine gun barrel in half. I told him it was impossible, but gave him all the information that he requested. I heard back from him last week about the show. Unfortunately I missed it, but will try to catch it when it comes on aain. Seems that they ended heating the macinegun barrel up to 2000 degrees, then had a machine it the barrel, and all it managed to do was bend it. They did get the blade to penetrate almost a quarter of an inch. Michael said that they broke a lot of swords, and hit it harder than any human could strike. I hope that this puts to rest the nonsense of cutting a machine gun barrel in half. I'm going to suggest that they dtry letting a silk scarf fall on a sword and see if it will cut the scarf in half. Hank
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Steve L.





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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Michael said that they broke a lot of swords, and hit it harder than any human could strike.


Evil Evil Evil

I guess (hope!!!) that was not real katana! WTF?!
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 8:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have moved this topic to the Off-topic Talk forum.

Please note the description for this forum:

"Discussions of general history and other miscellaneous topics relating to arms and armour that do not specifically fit our other forums"

Thank you.

Happy

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Scott Hanson




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 8:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw that episode. I wish they would have used a linkage instead of just a rotating arm, but I'm sure the results would have been the same. I just like to see tests done as accurately as possible.

As far as "real katanas" being broken, I guess that depends on what you mean. They broke a number of replica katanas. They looked like decent but not great replicas. The sword that did damage the gun didn't take really obvious damage itself, and I believe the credits said it was an Angel sword. Not sure if Angel provided all the replicas or just the one they described as a "high hardness modern alloy sword".
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Hank Reinhardt
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Mythbusters         Reply with quote

Actaully it doesn't matter if they were old katans or not. (except for the value they would have destroyed had they been old one.Nor would sharpness matter. It is a question of force applied, the matter being cut, and the item used in the cutting.Cutting a thick piece of steel, even one relatively soft at about 35 Rockwell, requires far more force than the human body can generate.
I have heard the Angel makes very good swords using some modern alloys, but have never tested one to see how it performs. Hank

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Risto Rautiainen




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wish they would make a show about the myth of clumsy knights and the myth of cumbersome armour. How about the myth of not being able to ge on a horse without a crane? Or how about the myth of overweight european knightly swords? The myth of the 10-pound sword? How about it Mr. Reinhardt, as you already are in contact with them ... Wink
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Scott Hanson




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry, wasn't meaning to imply that an antique katana would have had a chance. Just trying to answer the question of whether or not "real" katanas had been destroyed. If Steve meant real = antique, then no. If real = physical object as opposed to say, computer modeling of the test, then yes, real katanas were destroyed. My comment on quality was as to the potential value of the swords, not the cutting ability.

I'm a mechanical engineer, so I'm well aware of the factors involved. That is why I wished they would have used a linkage. You can make a rotational rig that develops the same force, as they did, but I'm sure someone will argue that swordsmen don't strike by just rotating their torsos, and claim the test wasn't valid. With a linkage designed to simulate a strike from a human more closely, that "argument" dissolves.
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Hank Reinhardt
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am sure that in other forums you will have people insisting that the test wasn't valid for any number of reason. Mainly because they want to believe a sword will cut that well.
On the other show they did aobut cutting a sword in half, they had some swordsman cutting some ballistic gelatin. I had a feeling that the guy never heard of a drw cut, as when I played it back, he just chopped, no draw cutting at all.Hank

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Grayson C.




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think that European myths should be tested. While the cumbersomeness of armour might not make for a particularly great episode, several myths like these would however.

Also, Hank, I believe that all tests should be done by a VERIFIED specialist, not some japanophile self proclaimed expert swinging some sharpened steel Laughing Out Loud . And I half expected those Katanas to be made of stainless If you are going to test sword myths, make sure you have an EXPERT!


I think this myth was proven false before it even started because it is a fact that you cannot cut through steel without specialized equipment. Swords were simply not designed for this and it is absurd to think they would Happy
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John Cooksey




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Grayson C. wrote:
I think that European myths should be tested. While the cumbersomeness of armour might not make for a particularly great episode, several myths like these would however.

Also, Hank, I believe that all tests should be done by a VERIFIED specialist, not some japanophile self proclaimed expert swinging some sharpened steel Laughing Out Loud . And I half expected those Katanas to be made of stainless If you are going to test sword myths, make sure you have an EXPERT!


I think this myth was proven false before it even started because it is a fact that you cannot cut through steel without specialized equipment. Swords were simply not designed for this and it is absurd to think they would Happy


What's a verified specialist?
There isn't exactly a licensing requirement. (grin)

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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That reminds me, I get a kick out of how fight coreographers in movies are often refered to as "Swordmasters". "We had serveral swordmasters on set to help us in out in our stunts", ect...
The title seems a little misplaced to me. Maybe reenactment specialists, or fight scene directors, but "swordmaster"?, no, I don't agree with that label in those positions.

But I just woke up, so there ya go...

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Chris Hanna





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PostPosted: Sun 10 Dec, 2006 4:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would assume - and this is not based on any actual hard evidence or real knowledge, just a little thing called "mostly made up" - that the title of Sword Master is used in the same way as Martial Arts Master. These are guys that have trained a specific technique of sword fighting to the extent that Jet Li has trained in Wu Shu (sp?)
That's just my thought, feel free to contradict it with actual facts because I have none lol
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Ed Toton




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Dec, 2006 7:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I too was very curious about the swords used, particularly in the sword-vs-sword tests. If at least some of them were Angel Sword, I'm afraid it doesn't tell me much. I know who they are, but I haven't formed an opinion on them yet. They used to be at the Maryland Renaissance Festival number of years ago; The rumor is that they were kicked out for misrepresenting their product (disclaimer-- I said rumor). I handled a few of their swords at the TX Renaissance Festival this season and wasn't as impressed as I hoped to be.

I'd love to see more specifics on the swords Mythbusters used, just for my own curiosity's sake.

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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Dec, 2006 7:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I keep checking, but I haven't seen the episode listed yet... Anyone remember the name of it, or whatelse they did during it?
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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