Do I have an authentic Falchion? -- myArmoury.com

Greg Brown · Posted: Sat 30 Sep, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: Do I have an authentic Falchion?

I may have acquired what could be an authentic medievel Falchion. It looks blacksmith made, and very old. Is there someone there who would be willing to comment on the attached photos and give me their opinion? I realize there are many repros and modern made knives, swords and weapons that look very close to original... but I need to ask.

This came from a private collection that also had an authentic Viking sword and 17th century armored helmet and other items from a since deceased serious European collector.

The entire length is about 34" and the blade is about 26"

I am not a professional sword collector, and my background primarily involves antique firearms.

This is an amazing site, and I am looking forward to enriching my knowledge of antique edged arms here.

Thank you Forum members!

-Greg

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Did you happen to get this from "goodgolfer" on ebay?

Greg Brown · Posted: Sat 30 Sep, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject:

Yes, I did. Is there something I should know about him or this item?

Greg Brown · Posted: Sat 30 Sep, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject:

More info:

It is very sharp, but does not look recently done... I can't see any grinding lines near the edge, but it is as sharp as I would want any blade to be. And the edge just tapers like a wedge, with a slight rounding into the edge. It weighs about 4+ pounds (approx 2kg). There are no markings that I can see other than a lot of dings and very old nicks. Very aged pitting in various parts of the blade. The grip is wood, very dark, almost polished smooth from handling it would seem.

I read somewhere that they have only found a handful of these surviving. If this proves to be authentic, then perhaps I have something rather valuable. How can I get this appraised?

Glen A Cleeton · Posted: Sat 30 Sep, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject:

Hi Greg,

The active rust and grip condition are inconsistent with other apparent corrosion and loss. Unless the piece was quite costly (and even then) you likely have a piece that was misrepresented. Nothing can be said for sure from pictures but I'd want a whole lot more than those and a seller's word for it.

Local museums and universities can sometimes be helpful.

My vote is a fake but that means little. It is just not something I would have bought without a whole lot of study and assurance. If the seller has an ample inspection period and return policy, you may wish to take advantage of those.

Cheers

GC

Blaz Berlec · Posted: Sun 01 Oct, 2006 2:02 am Post subject:

To me, it looks like a modern antiquated Czech replica. Sorry, but I have never seen a medieval tool or weapon so crudely made. Even simple every day objects were finely crafted, and so such a large steel weapon would certainly be worth a few hours of grinding - price of workmanship was low, price of material was much higher. In short, most metal objects from medieval ages don't look "blacksmith made" - even simlpe objects like keys or hinges.

2 kg seems also too much for falchion of such length.

Steve L. · Posted: Sun 01 Oct, 2006 2:20 am Post subject:

Yes, looks like the "rustic style" of "weapons" i know from middle age events (we call it "Oktoberfests in tights" Wink

) in germany, here in an antiquated variant.

I can see the czech "craftmansship"!

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Sun 01 Oct, 2006 2:32 am Post subject:

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Sun 01 Oct, 2006 2:40 am Post subject:

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Given the seller, I'd say it's more likely this is a product of a Hollywood (or other) prop house. Keep in mind, the seller did not misrepresent this item and, given his track record for sales, did not charge outrageously for it.

All points made here are valid, but for me, the best indication of its non-ancient nature is that it's much too heavy for an authentic version of this weapon type.

Greg Brown · Posted: Sun 01 Oct, 2006 6:31 am Post subject:

Thank you all for all the response. The blade is 3/16" thick all along the length until it tapers to the point. The point made about medieval labor being cheaper than iron was especially interesting to me. Things certainly have changed today. I have contacted the seller about a return. He did NOT misrepresent it, explained it very well and the price was not outrageous. In fact, these are HIS photos from the eBay listing. But $300. is too much for a fake, when I can get perfectly authentic replicas in Damascus steel for 1/2 that.... if I were interested in a fake.

Thanks you all for your comments!

-Greg

George Hill · Posted: Sun 01 Oct, 2006 7:27 am Post subject:

Mikko Kuusirati · Posted: Sun 01 Oct, 2006 7:41 am Post subject:

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Greg, "goodgolfer" states that he knows nothing what so ever about this stuff and doesn't ask close to "real deal" prices for the items he sells. Once in a while he comes up with a legit item (its actually been a long time since i've seen one offered by him) and i've bought one or two of them from him, but this item is typical of his offerings otherwise. It is a reproduction, done up to look old, that being said it may in fact have been made back in the 1920-30's for the antique collectors market. Its not a bad looking piece, it looks old and may in fact be an "antique" in its own right given when he says his uncle bought all this stuff(1920-30's) and you certainly didn't overpay based on modern market prices, especially when you add in the time and materials it would take to "antique" it out yourself (look at some of the awsome project threads Sean's got on here where he's antiqued out MRL pices. they look great, but he puts alot of time and attention into them to achive those results). I can understand you being dissapointed that its not original but its a good looking item with some age of its own I think.

Greg Brown · Posted: Sun 01 Oct, 2006 9:39 am Post subject:

Yes, I have asked for a return and refund. It is clear from the feedback I've received that this is a modern piece. Someone said it may indeed be "antique", as in 100+ years old, but certainly not medieval. The question is whether $350. is a fair price. I love the feel of this piece, and would keep it if it was worth $350. But not if its just some $75. cheap fake.

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Sun 01 Oct, 2006 9:58 am Post subject:

R Smith · Posted: Mon 02 Oct, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject:

Greg Brown · Posted: Mon 02 Oct, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject:

Actually, I had no idea what it was when I bid. I knew nothing about falchions or their history. I just really liked it, and his items seemed at least honestly presented. It was purely an impulse bid. Then, after it arrived, I decided to see what the heck it was, and suddenly this whole dialogue began.

So yes, $350. is an okay price for something like this if I really like it. This thing feels like it could cut through a desk.

FYI, I have found what seems like a legitimate carbon 14 dating lab in the Ukraine that will test small samples for $100. USD. Here is there website, if anyone is interested:

http://www2.ldc.net/~mbuz/c14.htm

Thanks again for everyone's input!

Laughing Out Loud

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Mon 02 Oct, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject:

With three or four days at the grinder you could make a real falchion out of it.

You could try to distally taper the blade while polishing it, so losing a discrete weight while gaining nimbleness.

then you could clean the cross, after that you should decide for the balance and reshape the pommel accordingly.

All this after disassembly and likely annealing (if it is heat treated at all), obviously.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin