[Greyson Brown]

[Rod Walker]

Hi, I have it all finished. It is a very secure and comfortable rig to wear. I will punch a couple more holes in the belt to tighten it up a little and then it will be set.

The rondels are silver and will look better with a bit of age on them. I expect the whole rig to wear in and bed down. Lots of leather conditioner will soften it all up. I did the dye job myself as well. The only things I didn't make are the rondels and the chape.

[Greyson Brown]

Rod,

I like the way you crossed the strapping back over itself. It gives it a liitle bit different look and character. Since it is related, I am going to mention that, for those who are interested, there is a thread about attaching a scabbard to its suspension system like that here.

-Grey

[Nathan Robinson]

[Glen A Cleeton]

In The Arcaeologgy Of Weapons, Oakeshott pictures a couple of 14th century type XIIs with quite a bit of hardware on the scabbards. It may have been an uncommon thing, on more pedestrian scabbards but there do seem to be examples.

Before the Vikings, the Celts were also using fittings on scabbards.

Cheers

GC

[Greyson Brown]

Glen,

I see the sword that Nathan posted in the plates (plate 17 a & b). Were those the ones you were referring to? Were you thinking of some in the figures throughout the book?

-Grey

[Greyson Brown]

Rod,

By the way, what do you use for your leather. I assumed that you use couch leather, as was discussed in this thread, but you know what they say about "assume." A scabbard is probably still a bit in the future for me, but I am trying to gather what information I can as the opportunities arise. Thanks.

-Grey

[Glen A Cleeton]

Yup, I have the images turned off but should have groked on Nathan's caption. There is also the ballock dagger pictured a couple of pages later (21b) There is also Fig 121 The sword of Count Ekkehard effigy illustration (1260). I'm sure there are others from the same volume, i'm just skimming a bit. Certainly a type of hardware that goes way back.

In another thread, quite similar, these examples were brought forth. It may have been a case that more affluent medieval sword owners had fancier scabbards, or they are more of a continental trait in that time. I think it more likely to have been a usage/practical thing and probably more common to expensive costume (medieval period). Just my thought on it.

Cheers

GC

[Greyson Brown]

I question your inclusion of the Count of Ekkehard scabbard, that looks like the typical leather laced through the skin of the scabbard method to me. Still, you are right that lockets were obviously used, and I would be willing to believe that they were an expression of wealth in at least some cases. The 14th century was one of those periods when metal (and it doesn't seem to have always mattered the value thereof) was used to show off.

-Grey

[Glen A Cleeton]

Well, the sharpness of definition there on that figure would seem to indicate something other than leather. As it is an effigy, hard to say for sure. If you compare that to plate 9c (then look at 9b), it appears a lot more solid than a simple cord or leather reinforcement. Another, that looks metal to me, is fig.88. I don't see that one as artful depiction of leather lacing either.

More artful, perhaps, is fig. 147, the section of text describing the lockets and fittings is in this chapter. Folowing that are fig. 149, 154, 156, 158, 165, 170, 172, 175 and 178.

Then look at the frontpiece photo for the tome. While not exposed metal, we do see reinforcement under the leather. While it could be said (on other examples) that these risers are simply keeping the straps from pulling up over the mouth, even a simple binding is going to add strength.

I'm not one to greatly overestimate the "truth" of artwork but when backed by a good amount of physical evidence, some things are hard to deny. How many scabbards were thought as disposable in the first place?

Cheers

GC

GC

[Jonathon Janusz]

Nice job, Rod. I have to say, though, that with as nice of a job as you did on the buckles, doing up some lockets, rings, and strap ends would really clean the whole thing up visually. Although the wrapped leather cords are functional, I think some of the graceful lines you built into the scabbard are lost beneath them.

Keep at it; I know you can do it

[Rod Walker]

Hi Grey, I used 1mm thick veg tanned for the scabbard covering. I don't know its exact name but it is a beautiful leather that is very supple and strong. I have two very large full hides of it that I purchased on Friday. I intend to use it for 15thC long boots that I am making. The belts are 4mm thick un-dyed veg tanned that I dyed myself.

Hi Jonathon, I like the strapping , everyone has lockets and I wanted something period yet different for me. I am making a scabbard for my wife and I will use lockets on it. I am looking forward to having a go at making them.

I had no idea I could do this stuff

[Russ Ellis]

[Greyson Brown]

Russ, thanks for posting that picture. That is the sword I mentioned from Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight (page 91), and it is the figure 149 from Archaeology of Weapons that Glen mentioned. According to Oakeshott, those scabbard mounts can be dated with quite a bit of certainty to between circa 1310 and 1340. He doesn't specify why we can be that certain, though.

Rod, thanks for the info.

-Grey

[Russ Ellis]

[Greyson Brown]

Russ,
I just included a link from this thread to the other and vice versa because of the similar content (I'm not a moderator, so if it was inappropriate for me to do that, just say so). Right now, with both threads active, it seems kind of redundant, but I thought it would be nice to have something to help people find both if they do a search a few months from now.

Rod,
I'm sorry for hijacking your thread. I'd like to hear any thoughts on making your first scabbard. Was there anything that was harder than anticipated? Anything that you thought would be hard, and wasn't? Anything you would do different next time?

-Grey

[Jared Smith]

I would like to know how you prepared the leather (amount of excess, approach to stretching or shrinking after sewing?)

I have attempted a similar design for an Albion Knight sword. However, I cut the dry leather based on scabbard dimensions without the cord hoping it would stretch first and then shrink over the risers. I stretched the leather as best as I could using alcohol while sewing it. After about 1 day, the back stitched seam pulled apart leaving about a 1/16 (1.5 mm) gap.

I wonder now if the better approach is to apply the leather without stretching, and then shrink it after the fact?

[Rod Walker]

Hi Jared, I didn't really need to shrink the leather. I used contact adhesive and put it on the front of the scabbard and risers and the back of the leather. When this was tacky I put them together, pressing the leather over the risers and sort of pulling and pressing so that the leather was stretched and tight on the wood. I let this set and then moved around adding glue and pulling the leather tight.

When I cut the leather for the scabbard I made it a bit bigger then needed so I could trip it for the seam. I had about a 5mm gap that pulled tight when I sewed it.

The leather is tigh and does not move at all.

The next one I do I will only glue on the front so that when I sew it up the back it will pull the whole thing nice and tight.

I also sewed it all the way to the tip. It was such a neat job that I didn't really need the chape if I didn't want it. I think i may have fluked that bit.

I didn't soak the leather or anything like that. I used a 1mm thick leather that is absolutely beautiful.

[Jared Smith]

Thanks Rod.
It was your post that led me to try this out. I started with the wood slats three days ago....

Drastic stretching to draw the seams togather is clearly not ideal. Some technical sites on leather suggested that you should only stretch it 3% to 5% (vegtable tanned.) In restrospect, I think I tried to stretch it 9% and ended up with something exactly in the range of what the technical sites predicted. This was calf skin, also about 1 mm thick (1.75 to 2 oz weight per yard is how the vendor described the weight/ thickness.)

I will continue to try some variations of my own. I know that with some degree of water/ wetting the leather (a friend of mine uses a hot air blower/ hair blower to do this on knife sheaths) can be made to set pretty hard (formed in place like boiled armour.) The leather in the picture is now pretty rigid (about 36 hours after I stopped sewing and wetting.) At this point, is does not matter if the rope risers come unglued, they are still trapped within the formed leather. I would say that if I had allowed just a little extra (2 to 3 mm) of leather when I cut it, it would have turned out just as I had intended.

[George C.]

VERY IMPRESSIVE FOR YOUR FIRST ATTEMPT.
CONGRATULATIONS.