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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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 Posted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject: Does anyone know where the original is? |
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http://www.deltin.net/5149.jpg
Does anyone know where the original of this sword currently resides? I've already asked Mr. Del Tin about it and he himself does not recall. He believes that it might be in the Royal Armoury but was not sure... anyone?
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Alina Boyden
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| Posted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is? |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | http://www.deltin.net/5149.jpg
Does anyone know where the original of this sword currently resides? I've already asked Mr. Del Tin about it and he himself does not recall. He believes that it might be in the Royal Armoury but was not sure... anyone? |
I don't know anything about it, but could you tell me what it is? IE, typology or date or something?
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is? |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | http://www.deltin.net/5149.jpg
Does anyone know where the original of this sword currently resides? I've already asked Mr. Del Tin about it and he himself does not recall. He believes that it might be in the Royal Armoury but was not sure... anyone? |
There is a similar sword in the Royal Armouries Tower of London (IX-1084). It has similar pommel (although the boss is smaller and does not have a recess) and similar cross. This sword is 107.9cm in length (overall). It has a small fuller in the upper 1/3 of the blade (like the Del Tin). the single biggest difference is the presence of the large side fullers on the Del Tin. The sword is dated to the fourteenth century.
Picture is included.
Alexi
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is? |
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| Alexi Goranov wrote: | the single biggest difference is the presence of the large side fullers on the Del Tin. The sword is dated to the fourteenth century.
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If you look closely at the Tower sword, it looks to have 2 shallow fullers (or severe hollow-grinding) between the small fuller and edges.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if those are fullers or if it's simply a strong secondary bevel at the edge. Even if it's the latter Fulvio may have interpreted it as a fuller. Either way I'd say this is a strong candidate Russ.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Brian M
Location: Austin, TX Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 500
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| Posted: Sun 17 Apr, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely an interesting blade on the Del Tin, don't know if it's a correct interpretation of the original, but it is interesting. A fullered mid-rib flanked by shallow fullers.
Hmm, I swear I've seen a picture of that sword or a very similar one on a book cover recently...
I just checked it out and I was right. I noticed it at the local Half-Price Books and I just looked it up on Amazon. Title is "King Arthur: Dark Age Warrior and Mythic Hero" by John Matthews. On close inspection it's not the same sword, but it is very similar. The blade has some pretty strong secondary bevels and a narrow central fuller. Same pommel and guard too. Check it out for comparison.
Anyone know which sword this is on the cover? I don't have ROTMS.
Regards,
Brian M
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is? |
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| Alexi Goranov wrote: | | Russ Ellis wrote: | http://www.deltin.net/5149.jpg
Does anyone know where the original of this sword currently resides? I've already asked Mr. Del Tin about it and he himself does not recall. He believes that it might be in the Royal Armoury but was not sure... anyone? |
There is a similar sword in the Royal Armouries Tower of London (IX-1084). It has similar pommel (although the boss is smaller and does not have a recess) and similar cross. This sword is 107.9cm in length (overall). It has a small fuller in the upper 1/3 of the blade (like the Del Tin). the single biggest difference is the presence of the large side fullers on the Del Tin. The sword is dated to the fourteenth century.
Picture is included.
Alexi |
Alexi may I just say... NICELY done! I think you've got it. On a purely visual level it's darned close and combine that with Mr. Del Tin's clues about where he thinks he may have found the original...
I certainly appreciate it sir!
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Does anyone know where the original one of these is? |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | Alexi Goranov wrote: | the single biggest difference is the presence of the large side fullers on the Del Tin. The sword is dated to the fourteenth century.
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If you look closely at the Tower sword, it looks to have 2 shallow fullers (or severe hollow-grinding) between the small fuller and edges. |
Agreed. The picture is a bit rough but there definitely looks to be an edge bevel between the fuller/hollow grind and the edge of the sword.
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | I don't know if those are fullers or if it's simply a strong secondary bevel at the edge. Even if it's the latter Fulvio may have interpreted it as a fuller. Either way I'd say this is a strong candidate Russ. |
Agreed!
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Brian M wrote: | Definitely an interesting blade on the Del Tin, don't know if it's a correct interpretation of the original, but it is interesting. A fullered mid-rib flanked by shallow fullers.
Hmm, I swear I've seen a picture of that sword or a very similar one on a book cover recently...
I just checked it out and I was right. I noticed it at the local Half-Price Books and I just looked it up on Amazon. Title is "King Arthur: Dark Age Warrior and Mythic Hero" by John Matthews. On close inspection it's not the same sword, but it is very similar. The blade has some pretty strong secondary bevels and a narrow central fuller. Same pommel and guard too. Check it out for comparison.
Anyone know which sword this is on the cover? I don't have ROTMS.
Regards,
Brian M |
Pommel and guard look pretty darned close, the blade cross section is extremely different. Of course with Mr. Del Tin that still doesn't mean that the same sword couldn't have been used for the model. I've noticed with Mr. Del Tin that he has no problem interpreting originals when enough hard data isn't available, in effect relying on his own knowledge and experience as to what makes a good sword when he has to.
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Allen W
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| Posted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure that's XVIa.1 from RoMS.
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Allen W wrote: | | I'm pretty sure that's XVIa.1 from RoMS. |
I'll check that out when I get home...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Allen W wrote: | | I'm pretty sure that's XVIa.1 from RoMS. |
I'll check that out when I get home... |
I don't think that's it. I have the DT sword here now and it's far closer to the example that Alexi posted. The blade's cross-section and the guard style are much closer to that one.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 18 Apr, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Well having looked at the picture of XVIa.1 I'd have to say that the cross is completely different then the replica although based on the pictures we have I couldn't say for sure that the Del Tin sword isn't an amalgamation of the two. The XVIa.1 does appear to have a not completely disimilar cross section although the central fuller is rather a lot longer then on the Del Tin sword. The pommels are pretty close as well between the two swords.
Thanks so much for your help gentlemen...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Joe Maccarrone
Location: Burien, WA USA Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Interesting thread... I woulda sworn I saw a triple fuller in the pic Alexi posted, but -- Royal Armouries IX.1084 is XVIa.5 in RoMS. Concerning the fuller, Oakeshott writes:
"The fuller here is very narrow, but there is a distinct rib in the lower half of the blade."
No mention of a triple fuller. Now that I read that, I can see the rib, and either a secondary bevel, as Patrick speculated, or a hollow grind. I would think that Oakeshott would have mentioned the latter, so maybe it is a prominent secondary bevel on a blade intended primarily for thrusting. Either way, an appealing sword, which Oakeshott dates c.1300-25.
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Edward Hitchens
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| Posted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know, fellas. I've got my copy of Records right here in front of me (type XVIa.5), and Oakeshott has the blade at about 84 centimeters; according to Nathan, DT's website has their replica's blade at 91, right? Oakeshott also says there's a "...distinct rib in the lower half of the blade." Looks to me like the original has a pommel nut as well.
-Ted
"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 20 Apr, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Well I hope there is some justification for it historically because I really like those multiple fullers.
At the very least it would be a great fantasy piece.
If documented an Albion or A & A version would be very tempting: Very nice design 
I might even be tempted to design my own Fantasy version of it if I ever went the custom route.
Hmmmmm..... something combining a type XIV with a type XV reinforced point using this pattern of fullers maybe.
(Edited to add graphic: What it might look like as mentioned above. )
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Björn Hellqvist
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Why not ask Fulvio? He usually backs up his designs with some kind of documentaion.
My sword site
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This is a standard topic