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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

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PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's the site for this mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mail_armour_images_from_Livrustkammaren Most of these look eastern. That second mail pic I showed looks more like indian or late russian to me. There are other shirts here showing the same technique, where it looks like direct hammer to ring contact is happening.
Leonard Parker
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Eric S




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PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Len Parker wrote:
Here's the site for this mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mail_armour_images_from_Livrustkammaren Most of these look eastern. That second mail pic I showed looks more like indian or late russian to me. There are other shirts here showing the same technique, where it looks like direct hammer to ring contact is happening.


A great collection but look at the horrible images, what a waste, we could probably learn a lot from these armors if they were correctly photographed but dont hold your breath.

https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/
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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What do you think of this: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368072049373 "Lower body and sleeves are not riveted but soldered rings with round cross-section"

This might be the same shirt: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/124412008430633808 "each rivet reinforced with latten solder, the lower body and arms of butted rings similarly reinforced"

Leonard Parker
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Len Parker





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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan, 2019 1:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I found the shirt: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368072049347 but no close-ups yet. The sleeves and bottom definitely look different.
Leonard Parker
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric S wrote:
Len Parker wrote:
Here's the site for this mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mail_armour_images_from_Livrustkammaren Most of these look eastern. That second mail pic I showed looks more like indian or late russian to me. There are other shirts here showing the same technique, where it looks like direct hammer to ring contact is happening.


A great collection but look at the horrible images, what a waste, we could probably learn a lot from these armors if they were correctly photographed but dont hold your breath.


Actually Eric, at least some of the photographs are excellent. You simply have to download the original file from Wikipedia. The image entitled "Ringbrynja_med_halvarmar_-_Livrustkammaren_-_106763.tif" is 6,870 pixels by 5,402 pixels in size, for example. Here's a close up of a section of the mail in the picture, so you can see what that looks like.



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Len Parker





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PostPosted: Fri 11 Jan, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I didn't get Eric's criticism. I thought he just being picky. Here's the wikimedia site with the larger sizes of that flattened mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pansarskjorte%C3%A4rm,_Alskogs_ka_-_Livrustkammaren_-_19343.tif I would say that it looks flattened. There is a slight bump around the rivet but not pronounced like it usually is. I don't know how to prove it's european other than it looks similar to the tofta coif.
Leonard Parker
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Len Parker





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PostPosted: Fri 11 Jan, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's the main page for all the links: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical_mail_armour
Leonard Parker
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Eric S




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PostPosted: Tue 05 Feb, 2019 3:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Len Parker wrote:
I didn't get Eric's criticism. I thought he just being picky. Here's the wikimedia site with the larger sizes of that flattened mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pansarskjorte%C3%A4rm,_Alskogs_ka_-_Livrustkammaren_-_19343.tif I would say that it looks flattened. There is a slight bump around the rivet but not pronounced like it usually is. I don't know how to prove it's european other than it looks similar to the tofta coif.
len, your right about this image, its very clear, close and detailed, and there are some other very good images as will but there are a huge amount of armor images and weapons images at the museum, including a lot of really rare armors that do not have close detailed images. Before they were on Wiki I would use the museum database and I guess I am a bit fustrated seeing all these amazing items were you can not see the details.
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Len Parker





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PostPosted: Wed 24 Apr, 2019 6:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like all butted from Sweden http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=47828 Click on Stor for large size. Could be a patch but who knows.
Leonard Parker
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Len Parker





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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 5:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Take a look at this: http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=47815 I think I'm seeing all riveted. It's from a viking grave in Gotland. Click Stor for large size.
Leonard Parker
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Need a much bigger photo than that.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 6:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Len Parker wrote:
Looks like all butted from Sweden http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=47828 Click on Stor for large size. Could be a patch but who knows.


Huh, I'm seeing some little bumps or bulges that look like riveted joints to me. Some rings are broken or open but it's pretty corroded, those could just be damage.

Matthew
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Len Parker





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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan, click on Stor and you can make it as big as you want. Matthew, I'm seeing a break on every one of those rings.
I got another one for you. This one says 3rd century Roman. Looks all riveted, and a couple of rings look like overlaps are going from right to left: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fragments_of_ancient_Roman_mail_armor_(_3rd_century_AD_).jpg

Leonard Parker
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Matthew Amt




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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, Erik Schmid noted that Roman mail overlapped backwards from medieval mail. Drove him crazy reproducing it, of course, because he basically had to do everything left-handed!

Matthew
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Len Parker





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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No Matthew, the opposite. I'm saying I think this mail is like medieval mail, not roman. Look at the center of the left section of mail. I think there's a single ring showing this.
Leonard Parker
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 3:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree, Len. It appears to be right-hand helix, typical medieval.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 3:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Len Parker wrote:
Dan, click on Stor and you can make it as big as you want.

All riveted, right over left overlap. 15th C European seems a reasonable assessment.

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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart Shearer wrote:
I agree, Len. It appears to be right-hand helix, typical medieval.

Yep. If it is Roman then it is unique. Late Medieval European is more likely.

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Matthew Amt




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PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2019 5:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Len Parker wrote:
No Matthew, the opposite. I'm saying I think this mail is like medieval mail, not roman. Look at the center of the left section of mail. I think there's a single ring showing this.


Oh, sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying! No argument from me.

Matthew
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