[Brennan K.]

Hello everyone, this is my first time posting and I need some help. Over the next two years I plan on putting together a mid to late 14th century harness but I am having trouble telling if what I want is historically accurate. If any of you could help me it would be greatly appreciated.

Brigandine-
http://www.steel-mastery.c[url]om/en/brigandi...-centuries
Pauldrons-
https://armstreet.com/store/armor/european-armor-pauldrons-circa-xiv
Arms-
https://armstreet.com/store/armor/european-armor-arms-circa-xiv
Legs-
https://armstreet.com/store/armor/european-armor-legs-circa-xiv
Helmet-
http://medieval-armour.com/online-shop/mediev...ct_id=6634
Gauntlets-
https://armstreet.com/store/armor/hourglasses-sca-finger-gauntlets

P.S.I will mostly be using this for Ren. fairs and SCA style combat for now.

[Houston P.]

Hello and welcome Brennan! While I'm far from an expert by any means, I own a Gjermundbu helmet from ArmStreet that I got several years ago (before I really knew anything, to be honest), so I thought that I could share a little about my experience. I found dealing with them to be very pleasant, but the helmet had allot to be desired. It fits very well, is comfortable, and seems solid enough that I have no doubt it would take some serious abuse; however, the fit and finish aren't great (there are gaps between the plates that are quite noticeable), and it is very blocky and rather poorly shaped. If I was primarily concerned with getting something that is historically accurate, I would go elsewhere. If you just want a very reasonably priced piece that is wearable and still pretty tough, then they could be a good choice. I hope this helps!

[Mark Moore]

Hey, Brennan....Just thought I'd throw this out to you. I own a complete set of Epic Armoury Dark Warrior armor, and I like it very much. It's not REALLY all that historically correct, and it's not SCA legal (18 ga. steel), but it fits very well and is well made. You just have to measure yourself correctly to make it all look right. I bought mine in pieces, rather than the whole set. I did this because I was not exactly sure of the fit of some of the pieces, but wound up buying all large sizes. It does require some minor tweaking for a perfect fit, but overall, it all works well together. It has the chemically darkened texture to it, and when you get it...it is BLACK. I gave mine a light scrub-down with a fine Scotch-Brite pad, and turned them to a dull, dark gray color that really does look great. It's strictly for Ren-fest wear, but I get a lot of compliments on it. I will have it all in the 'Show us your Kits and Harnesses' thread pretty soon. The leather strapping is thick and well done, and it is VERY adjustable. I have a Lord of Battles darkened maille haubergeon and coif that I wear under it, and it looks excellent. All together, it is pushing my weight limit(I have a bad back)for Ren-wear...hence my thread about aluminum maille. But, without steel maille underneath, it is wearable all day long. The bracers and greaves require padding, but for the rest, I just wear a tunic underneath. As I said, I bought all pieces in size large, and it fits me perfectly. I'm 5'-7'' and 175 lbs. ....more like 185 after all the Christmas food. I also own two of their helms---Epic Dark Sugarloaf and Gothic Sallet---and they are fantastic. Well made and not overly heavy at all. Just thought I'd share my personal armor experience with you, for what it's worth. Something to look at anyway. ...Cheers!..............McM

[Mark Moore]

I forgot to add.....since you are in Dallas, if you are even remotely interested in this type of armor, maybe we can arrange a meeting some time. I live about 100 miles West of Dallas....40 miles North of Tyler. . Just in case you want to see some in real life. ...PM me if you want. .............McM

[Mark Moore]

Sorry.....100 miles EAST of Dallas. Forgot where I am. Nothing new for me. .......McM

[Brennan K.]

Thanks for all of the excellent advice! I'll keep shopping around and hopefully I'll have something to show off soon.

[Mark Moore]

The standard 'Warrior' armor is the polished steel version of the 'Dark Warrior' armor that I have. It would be easier to mix/match polished than the darkened. Other parts you add to it wouldn't necessarily have to be Epic Armoury brand. Lord of Battles makes quite a few pieces that SHOULD be compatible with the Epic. Gorgets, arms, legs, etc. It's also cheaper. ...........McM

[Mark Moore]

The polished Epic is cheaper than the darkened, I mean. .......McM

[Victor R.]

I have Steel Mastery's Wisby style COP. I wish they had had the brig you linked when I got my COP - I'd have gotten that instead as it is more in the style of the latter XIVth that I wanted to do - my COP is pushing it a little for that date range. That said, my COP is well constructed and in keeping with the style and construction of the original it seeks to emulate - I believe it a very good value for the price, and the Steel Mastery folks were good to work with and pretty good at communications that time around.

As for your helm, not sure about the manufacturer, but the style is in keeping with your time frame. A shovel faced klappvisor is more in keeping with Germanic areas, so if that fits with the persona you are trying to build, that should be a great style for you. As for the aventail, it looks butted (like the one I have), but this is a-historical, best that I can tell. If you can get wedge-riveted with alternating solid and riveted rings, that would be more accurate, both for period and for persona. It is my recollection that wedge riveting is also strongly associated with Germanic maille vs. dome riveted. Others more expert in these matters may be able to provide you with better/additional guidance.

Good luck!

[Brennan K.]

Victor, I too am weary of buying from a little known manufacturer but am willing to risk it if I can not find a good reconstruction of a sitten style bascinet. Also what is your COP covered with? I have seen both wool and leather but have been unable to find any sources showing what was used for certain.

[Victor R.]

Mine is leather, but I honestly think wool or heavy linen was more prevalent. I can't attest to that with full certainty, but there seems to be much argument in the communities about surviving examples being primarily textile based (which had largely or entirely rotted away leaving only rivets, plates and very little textile), as I recall. I know you see a lot of arguments against cuir bouilli (boiled & formed leather) armor - at least large pieces such as breast and back defenses - but I don't think the resistance is as heavy when discussing leather use in a brig or COP - again, someone better studied in the area may/should chime in with their perspectives and any good cites if they have them. A much later example of heavy leather "armor" is the buff coat, but I don't recall boiling being involved, just very heavy leather in a couple of layers.

So, we know leather was used - it is more a matter of how and when that gets the heated discussions going. The dude at the Ren Fair in all leather with spikes, studs, chains and skulls wearing eye-black would likely just get a good chuckle and a quick axe to the throat in the dark ages he seems to think he's representing; but someone with a leather covered brig in 1375 would likely be complimented on the nice armor (then get an axe to the throat by someone who wanted it more ). But, I've digressed...

One element that I think is pretty well agreed upon: the leather or textile is always on the outside (obviously), and there is no liner on the inside - the plates just rest against your gambeson/aketon or whatever garment you have on beneath.

[Brennan K.]

Thanks for clearing that up Victor. And you've just got to love poking holes into claims about fantasy armor, pun intended.

[Mark Moore]

If that was a shot at me, excuse me for offering my thoughts. If you're talking about the Ren-fest dude in Goth stuff...then, yeah. ......McM

[Brennan K.]

Sorry, I'm actually a big fan of EpicArmory and most fantasy armor, but you've just got to chuckle at the guys that have watched LoTR or played Warcraft and think that they're experts on armor.

[Mark Moore]

Yeah, I just wanted my stab at the Goth dude too. Pun also intended. I've seen everything from Imperial Stormtroopers to 'Furries' at Ren-fest. The FEMALE Stormtrooper, in anatomically-correct armor, made quite a splash. .........McM

[Brennan K.]

Thanks for all of the excellent advice I'll see you guys around the forum.

[Martin Helgren]

Hi Brennan
Just my 2 cents:
You might want to reconsider the helmet choice, since it really seems to fit better with a more mid-14th century mail-dominated harness, than the overall more plate-dominated later 14th c. harness you have chosen for the rest of the body. The center-hinged klappvisier seems to be quite german and to fall out of fashion in the last quarter of the century in favour of pivoted visors (such as the pig face, but also flatter versions).
It is not to say that a klappvisier is historically incorrect - since off course there would have been some overlap and the time frame is still quite narrow. It depends on how typical a harness you want, I guess.