Visigoth Sword -- myArmoury.com

Matthew Bunker · Posted: Tue 28 Feb, 2012 3:10 am Post subject:

As I just happen to have the book in question kicking around under my desk, I'll save Stephen the effort.

I don't think the Stilicho hilt furniture looks like Sasanian at all, but I do have to admit that what we can see of his scabbard does bear a marked resemblence to one of the Sasanian carvings at Bishapur.

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Tue 28 Feb, 2012 5:25 am Post subject:

Hi Paul PM sent.

Thanks for attaching the pics Matthew. As I said above I'm not entirely convinced of the swords Iranian origin, but depending on which way you interperate it, I can the possibility. To me this arguement rests on whether you interperate the sword to have a small upper guard between the grip and the pommel, or whether it's merely a ferule bellow a mushroom shaped pommel like on the reconstructed sassinian sword posted by Matthew. One thing that I find very strange, is the shape of the grip. Unlike most Roman grips with their carved finger ridges, it has an almost vase shaped grip, has anyone here every seen anything like this elsewhere?

Matthew Bunker · Posted: Tue 28 Feb, 2012 6:23 am Post subject:

José-Manuel Benito · Posted: Tue 28 Feb, 2012 6:54 am Post subject:

Hi.

There must be the fate, but now I am researching academic literature, and other sources, that could reveal how were the visigoth swords after the Migration times. I refer the so-called Regnum Gothorum of Toledo, and, especially, from the sixth century till its end, at the year 711.

It's, really, a difficult aim (or a mission impossible), because there are very few remains of visigoth weapons well preserved in the Iberian peninsula between fifth and eight centuries. First, because the habits of the Visigoth people who settled in Hispania were very different from those of the other Germanic communities: eg, it was common that the ritual offerings in the graves were humble, even if the dead were of high rank people, only some food, the civilian clothing, and little else. Second, for the Mediterranean climate, that is enough dry for maintain our soils in an oxidising environment (here, in Spain, we don't have nor anaerobic, nor reducing conditions, as in northern Europe); then, iron remains and organic objects disappear quickly.

So, we just can have some sword blades, and only one or two hilts, always incomplete. Despite this grim picture, I hope to reach some conclusions as soon as possible.

Saludos.

Photobucket image

Paul Hansen · Posted: Tue 28 Feb, 2012 8:04 am Post subject:

In this thread, Felix Kunze posted pictures from a sword found in Boe, Norway, which also bears a lot of similarity to the "Stilicho" sword.
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...p;start=20

And here's a better picture of the Avar swords in Budapest:
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?autoco...mp;img=560

Matthew Bunker · Posted: Tue 28 Feb, 2012 8:35 am Post subject:

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Wed 29 Feb, 2012 11:56 am Post subject:

While were talking about vase shaped grips, I had forgot that Greek xiphoi had them. A lovely newly found one can be seen here

www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?func=view&...;id=307875

Not that I'm saying that this has anything to do with Stilicho's sword, but it does have a similarly shaped grip.

Paul Hansen · Posted: Wed 29 Feb, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject:

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Wed 29 Feb, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject:

Hi Paul, funny I had the very same thought about the similarity of these Avar swords to those of the Han, it's possible that the Chinese swords influenced those of the Avar, and other Eurasian steppe nomads, the same way as the Chinese borrowed the idea of the P shaped scabbard mounts from the steppe nomads.

Oh and I recieved you'r email Paul, thanks very much for the pics. I had sent you a reply but I just noticed that the email has failed, so I've sent you another one.

Paul Hansen · Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject:

Paul Hansen · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject:

Regarding the pictures from the Krefeld-Gellep swords, it finally occurred to me that Jeroen Zuiderwijk must also have them on his website, since we visited the museum together... Duh... Blush

Anyway, here it is, third link from the bottom:
http://1501bc.com/page/index2.html

Wilhelm S. · Posted: Thu 15 Mar, 2012 7:29 am Post subject:

Paul Hansen · Posted: Thu 15 Mar, 2012 10:02 am Post subject:

Craig Johnson · Industry Professional

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Fri 16 Mar, 2012 4:05 am Post subject:

Thanks Paul for the reminder of Jeroen's site, I haven't looked at it in a while. I never noticed that there were pics from Krefeld on there. Do you happen to know what the grip material of the gold and garnet, ring pommelled sword? Looks like bone to me.

Matt Corbin · Posted: Fri 16 Mar, 2012 10:43 am Post subject:

Completely by accident I stumbled across some pictures of a reproduction of the Avar swords from Hungary.

And a possible belt arrangement:

More can be found here