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Mark T




PostPosted: Fri 19 Nov, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some more from the Pastrana tapestries. Sorry for the small file size of some.

And here's some background on the tapestries from a story about their restoration (at http://en.lacerca.com/news/cultura/pastrana_t...4-1.html):

Quote:
Exhibition ‘The Tapestry of Collegiate Pastrana’

The sample consisted of four tapestries from the Collegiate Pastrana, which houses one of the most interesting museums of Spain parish and retains a set of tapestries considered one of the best collections in the world of Gothic.

The tapestries dating from 1471 to 1475 and contain scenes of the conquest of Arzila and Tangier, Morocco’s fortified ports by Alfonso V4 of Portugal in 1471. There are four panels of four meters high and 11 meters long, approximately, woven in wool and silk, with a great historical interest as documents of his day were woven for a few years after the events depicted and not only provide information on his characters, but also provide useful information relating to uniforms and weapons of the Portuguese and their fleet.



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Mark T




PostPosted: Fri 19 Nov, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The first post I made in this thread was a quote from Edge & Paddock listing two sources for brigandines with spaulders as 'the Azila Tapestries' and the Burrell Collection's 'Hercules initiating the Olympic Games' tapestry.

The 'Azila Tapestries' and the 'Pastrana Tapestries' (in the images above) are one and the same (http://www.bridgemanart.com/image/Portuguese-...amp;page=6).

Below is the 'Hercules' tapestry. Again, it's hard to make out the detail at this resolution, but Edge & Paddock have a large, good quality image on page 122. Their caption reads:

Quote:
A fifteenth century Franco-Burgundian tapestry depicting Hercules initiating the Olympic Games. The central figure at the back appears to be wearing arm defences in the form of sleeves constructed in the same way as his brigandine.


The image below was sourced from the Glasgo Museums (http://collections.glasgowmuseums.com/viewima...mp;i=29762).



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Mathieu Harlaut




Location: Paris-France
Joined: 14 Dec 2004

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

If you want to see all brigandine pauldrons and sleeves you could wish for and a lot of details from the Pastrana Tapestries try this:

http://picasaweb.google.com/10018126424050117...ssels2010#

There are a lot of interesting details in those tapestries not only on brigandines.

Regards,

Mathieu
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Mark T




PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov, 2010 1:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mathieu - Wow! What a fantastic collection of photos ... 95 detailed photos, and almost every one of them contains brigandines with spaulders. The diversity and detail is amazing. Thank you so much for these!

Quote:
There are a lot of interesting details in those tapestries not only on brigandines.


There are some great details here, from the different kinds of points used, through to different construction methods for mail standards ... this is a great resource.

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Iagoba Ferreira





Joined: 15 Sep 2008

Posts: 160

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov, 2010 7:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Mathieu! Big Grin

The Toledo cathedral choir seats depict the whole Granada campaign, slightly later that century, but without that detail. Like in those tapestries, most "common" soldiers wear the sleeved brigandines. Sadly, I haven't found detalied photos online. Sad

Both sources are priceless to know about the late 1400's artillery in the Iberian peninsula (OK, Azila is on Africa, but...)
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Scott Woodruff





Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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Posts: 605

PostPosted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you very much Mark T and Mathieu for the pics. They have been most helpful to me. I am hoping to start a brigandine soon and you have provided me with a wealth of ideas.
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Mark T




PostPosted: Fri 15 Apr, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Another written source: Sir James Mann         Reply with quote

Okay, so we've clearly established the use of brigandines with spaulders ... but in the interests of completeness, and adding to this topic as a wider resource, here's another source: Sir James Mann's glossary entry for 'Brigandine' from Wallace Collection catalogues: European arms and armour (Volume 1: Armour), London: William Clowes and Sons, 1962, p. xxxv:

Quote:
BRIGANDINE. A flexible close-fitting coat of defence, consisting of small metal plates riveted to a foundation of canvas or leather, and usually covered with velvet or silk, the heads of the rivets on the outside being used with ornamental effect. It was laced down the sides, or buckled down the front, and occasionally furnished with sleeves and tassets en suite.

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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 24 Dec, 2011 1:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Found a few more ... these come from that annoying genre of book that includes lots of images, but little to no detail about them!

The first appears on page 6 of Castles and fortifications from around the world, Christopher Gravett (Ludlow: Thalamus Publishing, 2006).

Spotting brigs with spaulders can be a bit like playing Where's Wally at times ... this one has four.



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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 24 Dec, 2011 1:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

More spot-the-spaulers ... this one from Trait de la forme at devis comme on fait les tournois, by Rene de Anjou, as reprinted on p. 41 of The book of the medieval knight, Stephen Turnbull (London: Arms and Armour Press, 1995).

This image shows three brigs with spaulders ... it's interesting how there are a few sources that show multiples in the one image. Unless the painter/illustrator was just wanting to show diversity, then perhaps we can infer that brigs with spaulders were either relatively popular, or were common in certains times and places.

I especially like this image, as one (if not two) of the brigs clearly show the form of the plates underneath the brigandine cover ... we usually only get to infer the 'brigandined' construction of the spaulders in other images from their trefoil rivet patterns, so this image provides the proof positive.



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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 24 Dec, 2011 3:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This image puts us back in the realm of 'possible' spaulders, as it's unclear whether the yellow/gold dots are meant to be rivets on a brigandine, or something else (many other images of this type clearly show rivets in a trefoil pattern). However, it's worth including as a possibility, and another good hint of how fantastic red brig spaulders can look in conjunction with plate arms ...

This image from Knights in history and legend, Constance Brittain Bouchard et al (Lane Cove, Sydney: Global Book Publishing, 2009), again without artist details:

Quote:
At the battle of Nájera (1367) - seen here in a fourteenth-century illustration - Henry of Trastámara, supported by the French, fought heroically but unsuccessfully against his brother, Peter the Cruel, who was aided by the English under Prince Edward of Woodstock.



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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 24 Dec, 2011 3:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another fantastic tapestry image, clearly showing three points where the brigandine spaulders are attached.


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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 24 Dec, 2011 3:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This one also comes from the Bouchard book above. The only source infomation given is 'This copy of a medieval illustraiton of the battle [of Agincourt] dates to the nineteenth century'.

It shows what are likely two brigandines with brig spaulders - the blue/black one in the upper left of the detail, and the red one in the lower right.



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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 24 Dec, 2011 3:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One more ... this image courtesy www.art-archive.com (hence the watermark) - will try to post better image here soon.

Quote:
Location:
Musée Condé Chantilly
Description:
Assassination of Saint THOMAS Becket, archbishop of Canterbury, 1118-70, on 29 December 1170 by soldiers of Henry II of England in Canterbury Cathedral, folio 347R of Le Miroir Historial (The Mirror of History), by Vincent de Beauvais, 1190-1264 French scholar and encyclopaedist, 15th century French manuscript



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Assassination of Saint Thomas Becket by Vincent de Beauvais, Musée Condé Chantilly.jpg


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Mark T




PostPosted: Wed 04 Apr, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another ...


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2de.JPG


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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another one: The Adoration of the Magi c. 1450, Jean Fouquet (1420-1480):


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M Boyd




Location: Northern Midlands, Tasmania
Joined: 16 Aug 2013

Posts: 63

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know this is going way back but this image fits right in:

From:
Morgan M.63 Book of Hours
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Matthew Murrell




Location: Uk
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Would they for example have worn brig spaulders on their own with out a brig say with a breat plate, or are brg spaulders a brig only addition ?
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Kai Lawson




Location: Madison, WI
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A few images earlier (the fallen blue guy with rondells?) and the last image especially look to me like covered breastplates and brig. shoulders.

For those who've worn them: are they stiffer/less likely to compress than uncovered spaulders? They look great, and I want to make some. Does the addition of cloth covering restrict the plates' movements at all? (I doubt this would be an issue, but I was wondering about it...)

"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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