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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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 Posted: Sat 30 Jul, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject: Looking for photos of a particular kind of longsword |
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Hey everybody-
By now many people know I'm interested in compound-hilted swords. Over the last few years I've had a particular interest in 16th century compound-hilted longswords.
I'm looking for examples of a particular type. It looks to be a symmetric type with downward sloping quillons, two side rings, finger rings, and loops connecting the finger rings to the side rings. A decorative motif of knobs/balls divide up the bars and act as finials and are often adorned with a twisted motif.
Thank you for any help you may provide.
I'll include some examples here:
 
Here is another example though I don't believe this one is necessarily original to the 16th century:
And you can see an example here just below the 9 o'clock position:
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Justin H. Núñez
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| Posted: Sat 30 Jul, 2011 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder what is up with the apparent one-hander at about 8.30 or so, next to the very wide bladed sword?
"Nothing in fencing is really difficult, it just takes work." - Aldo Nadi
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Nicholas A. Gaese
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Sun 31 Jul, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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While I wish I were able to better contribute, I have to say these are lovely pics, particularly the last one. Two handers and longswords galore  (doesn't this spread look familiar Nathan, minus the multitude of schiavona  )
Speaking of the last pic, It's interesting to note that the said sword near 9 o-clock has a back sword blade of sorts, and the grip, unlike the previous two swords, is not waisted. Makes me wonder if it was replaced at a later time maybe? The inclusion of the grip tassels gives me that impression, though I might be wrong. Either way it is distinct from the other swords you've shown and I get the feeling that other swords in the style your looking for are likely similar to the first two mostly.
regards.
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Job Overbeek
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| Posted: Sun 31 Jul, 2011 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Justin H. Núñez wrote: | | I wonder what is up with the apparent one-hander at about 8.30 or so, next to the very wide bladed sword? |
I wonder what's up with that saw-liek blade :P
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Harry Lindfors
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| Posted: Sun 31 Jul, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: |
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What a great photo that last one is!
Am I seeing things, or does that big two-hander that sits on top of that pile of goodness, actually get a lot wider towards the tip of the blade? What a beastly cutter it must be!
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 31 Jul, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Harry Lindfors wrote: | | Am I seeing things, or does that big two-hander that sits on top of that pile of goodness, actually get a lot wider towards the tip of the blade? |
Probably. I've seen a lot of originals that get wider towards the point in the same way.
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-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Mon 01 Aug, 2011 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Bill Grandy wrote: | | Harry Lindfors wrote: | | Am I seeing things, or does that big two-hander that sits on top of that pile of goodness, actually get a lot wider towards the tip of the blade? |
Probably. I've seen a lot of originals that get wider towards the point in the same way. |
Me too, including many "flammard" blades. Eyeballing based on my semi-reliable recollection, I'd say on beidenhänders blades widening toward the tip seem significantly more common than tapering blades, and possibly as common as those with parallel edges.
This one, at least, looks likes it should be pretty well balanced with the massive hilt.
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Michael Harley
Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Sat 06 Aug, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Here's one that appears to have all the same makers marks as the first one posted, no further information other than ca.1600.
Cheers,
Michael.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Michael Harley
Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Flickin' through old files I came across a few more, The one in the group shot from a 'Fricker Historische Waffen' catalouge, the other from 'Fischer Auctions Sept. 2007', catalouge in German so all I could make out was ca.1520, 1315mm.
As with people, I too am quite partial to complex bastards.
Cheers.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Evan G.
Location: Kentucky Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Funnily enough, I actually just created an account to ask about a similar type of longsword. It's good to see there's some actual examples of this, and it's not just something that someone sketched up.
All I have is a drawing from a woodcut collection, unfortunately. It doesn't say where the sword pictured actually resides, but its claim on the dates of these swords make them some of the earliest complex-hilts I've seen. I just scanned the whole page, along with the little blurb at the bottom which is all the explanation that's offered. This comes from Medieval Arms and Armor: A Pictorial Archive by J. H. Hefner-Alteneck. Since the picture is a bit too large for me to upload here, I stuck it on imgur.
http://i.imgur.com/uThJY.png
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Evan G. wrote: | Funnily enough, I actually just created an account to ask about a similar type of longsword. It's good to see there's some actual examples of this, and it's not just something that someone sketched up.
All I have is a drawing from a woodcut collection, unfortunately. It doesn't say where the sword pictured actually resides, but its claim on the dates of these swords make them some of the earliest complex-hilts I've seen. I just scanned the whole page, along with the little blurb at the bottom which is all the explanation that's offered. This comes from Medieval Arms and Armor: A Pictorial Archive by J. H. Hefner-Alteneck. Since the picture is a bit too large for me to upload here, I stuck it on imgur.
http://i.imgur.com/uThJY.png |
Welcome to the site! I'm glad to know of another who is interested in compound-hilted longswords of the period!
The sword you show there, though of a compound construction and of similar age, is of a different type. It's a "Swiss Saber" variety (a name that is not contemporary with the sword itself and is misleading in its own right). It also happens to be one of my favorite types so I'm happy to see your image. Thank you for posting it!
Please check out my custom-made variation: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=17910
And here is another custom-made hilt I've had made that is of the same period: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18817
You might also be interested in this topic to see other complex-hilted swords of the period: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=19720
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Evan G.
Location: Kentucky Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: |
Welcome to the site! I'm glad to know of another who is interested in compound-hilted longswords of the period!
The sword you show there, though of a compound construction and of similar age, is of a different type. It's a "Swiss Saber" variety (a name that is not contemporary with the sword itself and is misleading in its own right). It also happens to be one of my favorite types so I'm happy to see your image. Thank you for posting it!
Please check out my custom-made variation: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=17910
And here is another custom-made hilt I've had made that is of the same period: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18817
You might also be interested in this topic to see other complex-hilted swords of the period: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=19720 |
Ah, so you're the owner of that Swiss "Saber," I've been drooling over that particular weapon for a year and a half now (couldn't figure out a way to say that without sounding like a creepy Internet stalker. Sorry.) and it's actually the reason that woodcut caught my eye. I've been trying to come up with a way to own one, but I just can't afford it. I kind of wonder if a custom shop would make me a practice version, with fewer flourishes and an unsharpened blade; that way I could actually use it, and maybe they'd take mercy on me and not charge as much. Something along the lines of Albion's Liechtenauer, just with the weight, balance, general blade profile, and hilt of this type of sword.
What I CAN afford are books, though, and I've got nearly 1000 pages worth of old woodcuts and photographs on my bookshelves right now. I'll probably go through the others and see if I don't have more complex-hilted bastard swords that have escaped my notice so far. If I do find some more, I'll definitely post them.
EDIT: Just got done checking through all my books. There were a few more complex bastards, but none that were quite like the type you were looking for. Oh well, I'll just take that to mean I need more books
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Cornelis Tromp
Location: Holland Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 12:58 am Post subject: |
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2 more from national Museum in Croatie.
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Scott Baltic
Industry Professional
Location: Chicago Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Nathan,
Not sure about this very specific type of complex/developed hilt, but the Styrian Arsenal in Graz, Austria, has a booklet (which I have a copy of) that includes several photos of this general type of hilt.
http://www.museum-joanneum.at/en/styrian_armo...ications-4
Scott Baltic
Publisher/Managing Editor
Western Martial Arts Illustrated
<www.wmaillustrated.com>
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Fri 25 Jul, 2014 12:44 am Post subject: |
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I believe the sword attached below to be the same sword as seen in my first post in this topic. It's been sold and moved around but this has the same blade markings. Interesting! I wondered what had happened to it.
| Quote: | | A German or Swiss Hand-And-A-Half Sword, Circa 1530-1550, with a broad 107cm tapering blade cut with two fullers on each face, rectangular ricasso, formed with blunted edges for grip, cut with fullers on each side continuing from the blade and incised with a decorative border line, bearing blamarks, steel hilt of circular bars, interrupted by globular mouldings, with a pair of down-turned quillons with globular terminals, with spirally fluted pear-shaped pommel and leather-covered wooden grip, 131cm. |
It sold at Baldwins for £6,000 ($10,197 at the time of this posting).
Sources:
Baldwin's & Dreweatts London
PDF Catalog -- Lot 184, Page 80
Attachment: 41.25 KB
A German or Swiss Hand-And-A-Half Sword, Circa 1530-1550
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Fri 25 Jul, 2014 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Attached is another sword with some shared details to this hilt style... well, not so much, but it's an interesting pairing.
| Quote: | A COMPOSITE GERMAN HAND-AND-A-HALF SWORD
Partly 16th Century
With tapering single-edged blade cut with a full length fuller below its back edge and stamped with a mark on the inner-face at the forte, iron hilt incorporating moulded down-turned quillons with spirally fluted knopped terminals, a pair of arms, the forward arm connected by a diagonal to the upper-ring, the rear arm extending to form a prong set at ninety degrees to the blade, the entire guard decorated at intervals with chiselled leaf-shaped mouldings, spirally fluted globular pommel en suite, and moulded two-stage leather-bound grip.
38 1/8" (97cm) blade
Provenance
Col. Ambrose Monell Collection, New York, 1930 |
© CHRISTIE'S 2014
Source: Christie’s SALE 7468 LOT 102
Attachment: 39.05 KB
A COMPOSITE GERMAN HAND-AND-A-HALF SWORD
PARTLY 16TH CENTURY
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This is a standard topic
