[Sam Gordon Campbell]

Hello all,

I've come to realise that, in my personal experience, being solely able to speak English (besides the little French forced onto us in school), so many good sources, so much valuable information is tantalisingly close, yet out of my reach.
I know if I truly wanted to read what I seek, that I would go and learn any number of languages, but that requires determination which I lack; Internet translators are notoriously ambiguous, and many libraries lack decent if any translations or copies. And imagine how many essays or independent research/references primarily English speakers miss out on!

So my question is this: What sources (electrical or physical) have you come across that you wish you could understand? And why is it that you'd like to understand it?
Bonus question: Suddenly you can learn any language you want in its entirety, but, you may choose only one. What would it be?

As for myself? Any number of European web-sites that (to add insult to injury) not only have foreign references, but pictures from museums, manuscripts, and architecture as well!
And it would have to be French. Considering that that was the language of my period (C.13th.) of interest.

P.S. Read the subject title in Samuel L. Jacksons voice.

[Stephen Curtin]

For me it would have to be German. I cannot remember the amount of times I have been frustrated by hearing that the source I'm looking for is exclusively in German. Pierce and Oakeshott have pretty much covered swords from the viking period, throughout the middle ages and into the present, but to research the preceding periods, one would just have to learn German. I would love to be able to read books about the migration period e.g. works by Ellis Behmer or Christian Miks, not to mention the tons of books on the iron and bronze ages. I guess thats why fora like this one are so valuable, most of the time there is someone who is at least partially able to help with a little translation.

[Craig Peters]

I have a few sources that I'd like to understand. I have two books on the Middle Ages in French, La Pollution au Moyen Ages (you can probably guess what this one is about) and Laver, Monder, Blanchir: Discours et Usages de la Toilette dans l’Occident Médiéval, which is about hygiene and cleanliness in Western Europe during the Middle Ages. But, since my French isn't good enough to read either of these, I have not read them yet. But that didn't stop me from buying books on two intriguing subjects about the Middle Ages while I was in France. Similarly, I bought a copy of Der Speigel's history magazine a few months back because they were talking about the Hohenstaufen. And, unlike most crappy North American magazines, the Der Speigel history magazine is not a single story about the Hohenstaufen with a lot of unrelated junk, but an entire issue devoted to the subject. Again, because I cannot read German, I can't read the magazine, which leaves me left out.

For me, I'd probably choose German too. But French would be a very close second. The main reason I'd choose the former is my interest in the Holy Roman Empire, and given that the bulk of the scholarship is in German, it would be the language I'd like to learn. It would also be nice to be able to pick through a fechtbuch in the original language on my own.

As far as a third language goes, Latin would be immensely helpful. I wish someone would do a translation of Daniel Beccles' Urbanus that was available for general readership. I think it would certainly be something that readers would find fascinating, and would give an excellent introduction to social norms in late 12th C/early 13th C England.

[Craig Shackleton]

I mostly work with German manuscripts, so I would also choose German, hands down. In fact, I am making plans to take some German courses just for this reason.

Fortunately my neighbour is German, and is a language teacher and has a little bit of background with medieval German so I can get some help from her. Her husband and sons (who all also speak German) take sword lessons from me, so there's a good buy-in for her. Plus I'll be able to practice conveniently.

Having worked a lot with I.33, my two years of university Latin from 15 years ago has been tremendously helpful, even though it is obviously pretty limited. I could never have translated the text, but I have had a number of instances where I have been able to look at the translation, then go back to the transcription or even the original shorthand to get a better understanding of what they are saying and how they are saying it. I'd really like to be able to do the same with the German sources.

My second choice would be Italian. After that, my choices start to become coloured by other potential value. French has real-world application for me living in the Capital of a French-English bilingual country, but less for fencing than say Spanish. I have other uses and interest in improving my Latin, too. Plus, if I just learned better Latin, I'd pretty much have Spanish, Italian and French anyways!

[Justin B.]

I think I'd be in the German camp as well. Although my interest in the 12th-14th centuries has been growing rapidly in recent months, my first love is still the Migration and Viking periods, and it seems that most of the foreign-language scholarship in these areas is in German.

Unfortunately, that leaves out all the stuff I've found in Swedish, Norwegian or French, and that says nothing of the period sources written in contemporary Latin, French, German, Italian or English.

Sigh.

But, German for these purposes. But only because it's more useful than Finnish!

[Christian G. Cameron]

Well, I learned Ancient Greek and Latin....

so I have to say that once you start down this road, you just keep going!

But I think I'll be trying Medieval Italian next. Kind'a like Craig said. I do Fiore, and I'd really like to read it in the lingo. My dad does Medieval Italian.... sigh

and Mandarin Chinese.

and Japanese!

Hmmm... and Hittite. I actually know someone with a PhD in Hittite. But then, I long to build a chariot and fight from it...

[Russ Ellis]

[Timo Nieminen]

Chinese.

With high-school German, and fluent English, French isn't too traumatic. I need a dictionary, so it's slow. But one can manage. German (especially technical German) is slower, but again, can be managed with a good dictionary. Russian is a bit worse, in that it takes me a day to get to speed with Cyrillic. Italian is the worst European language I've seriously tried to deal with.

But Chinese! Chinese is much further removed from English than most European languages, and is written in a non-alphabetic script. Ouch!

A working minimum would be to (a) get a good Chinese-English dictionary, and (b) learn how to look characters up in a dictionary. Then I'd still be behind where I am with pretty much all European languages (and Indonesian).

[Simon G.]

As a French native speaker nearly bilingual in English, I find English is a great help with many germanic languages especially the older ones: Anglo-Saxon (duh), Old Norse, and even medieval German (I'm under the impression medieval German - well, some dialects of it - are closer to English than present-day German).

If I could learn a language instantly by magic, I'd chose German, though. Many interesting sources and it is so damn hard (for me) to learn. For a French native speaker, however, conversely Italian and Spanish are quite easy to manage, as many words are related (coming from Latin).

But seriously, I don't think one should rely entirely on personal skills. I don't remember if it was here or in another forum that C.H. Tobler said his translations were good because he had nice german friends... Obviously it's not only that, but in this connected age, one shouldn't just go by with dusty dictionaries and tedious grammar learning.

I, for one, am most ready to help out anybody who has a burning desire for access to a French text but can't because he doesn't speak français or ancien français (note to Sam : 13th c. French is Old French, ancien français, which is quite different from present-day French even if there are of course similarities. However, if you're interested in 13th c. French texts, and you can find Old French textbooks in English, I don't think you should "waste" your energy on modern-day French. Grammar, vocabulary, spelling are different in Old French. Of course reading modern French can also be useful for someone who studies medieval France...)

[Christian G. Cameron]

[Sam Gordon Campbell]

@ Simon G.
I've alway wondered, is there a drastic difference between modern French and older French? Sort of like how once you wrap your head around Middle English, it's not too difficult to read adequetly.

Y'know, as I read this thread, I am filled with dread that I'll never be able to decipher these sweet sources until I'm long dead.

Maybe some kind forumites can offer their brief interpratations on some of the said texts? (ah, if only).

I must confess, that book about Medieval personal hygine sounds interesting, as I've always wanted a decent toiletrires kit, and wondered how they shaved.

And Latin, as has been pointed out, would be good to learn as well as I'd imagine that so much of what one may seek would have been adapted from ancient texts.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Craig Peters]

[Gottfried P. Doerler]

well, speaking german and english (well enough for conversation i hope), having learned latin and ancient greek, i would choose between italian (because its such a nice, melodious language) and czech (because its very similar to other slavic languages of the region and would open a wide field of understanding).

actually i`m already able to conversate in italian by mixing latin, german and english foreign words from latin, and some phrases i caught from italian television. (i must sound like a dork. "I`m wants to finding restaurant" or something, but it mostly works, when beeing in italy for holidays.)

[Simon G.]

[Gottfried P. Doerler]

and what about the old languages in southern france, like the langue `d oc (ocitain) ?
are they still spoken (like catalan in spain), are similar to french spoken then, or are they different languages ?

[Simon G.]

Langue d'oc/occitan is still spoken by some in southern France, although probably not on a daily basis. But, due to regional identity issues, there is a survival, or rather a revival, of this language.

I cannot comment on the similarity between present-day occitan and medieval langue d'oc.

[Craig Shackleton]

[Russ Ellis]

[Craig Shackleton]

I recall a prof telling me that they knew some of the sounds of ancient greek from sound effects in plays. Specifically, the letters used to spell animal noises. Unfortunately I don't recall the exact details, or if he even gave them.