[Christopher VaughnStrever]

Well I find myself needing a Gambeson, just need one that I will get good use out of and I currently will have over 38 lbs in armour; of which this gambeson will have to take abuse from as well as provide a cushion between the chain mail and my skin (Previously I have used a thick shirt, ripped the sleeves off and folded the sleeves and then sew'd on the sleeves to the shoulders) I found this at Steel Mastery and was wondering if anyone has any knowledge of how well this holds up. Thanks for the help.

http://www.steel-mastery.com/index.php?&m...uct_id=403

There is also this Gambeson, though alot cheaper I can only fathom the less price is that this item is produced more.

http://www.steel-mastery.com/index.php?&m...uct_id=108

If you know; is the second cheaper Gambeson just as good as in terms of what I need? or is a 4th layer of wadding worth the extra charge to provide that much needed cushion

[Alessandro Fantucci]

[James Barker]

Quick note on terms: A gambeson is armor and goes over maille or is worn stand alone. An aketon goes under armor.



As to the steel mastery product I picked up one second had that did not fit so I sold it off but it was a real nice product. The linen was made of a good thick linen; it was cotton stuffed, and the workmanship was good (and I normally make my own stuff).

[Allen Andrews]

Steel Mastery has been having some serious delivery issues of late. For more info read:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewto...highlight=

That being said I bought 2 of the standard gambesons(one med and one large) for the high school HEMA club, and they seem like a decent product. Sadly the students prefer to wear lacrosse safety gear for sparring.

[Christopher VaughnStrever]

I'm always learning (Love this place)

Concerning the Aketon, Alessandro Fantucci, the one you have looks great, I just wish I could read that web-site><

Allen, Wow! thanks a ton, sounds like steel mastery had their ducks in a row and are trying to get it back, therefore till they do; I will aviod a possible dissapointment, again thanks for the info.

Is there any knowledge of GDFBs' (Get dressed for Battle) Aketons? I see their items sold at a few different web sites.

I also have instruction's to make a Aketon, however I am a bit weary of making my own. I just don't know exactly what/where to get the best material to buy for such a project.

[Nathan Robinson]

[Greg Mele]

James,

[Alessandro Fantucci]

Sorry...

I thought there was also the site in English

my gambeson is very good piece, is maded with natural fibres and padding....

Important!! the sleeves must be shaped!!!

night

[Ed Toton]

[Jean-Carle Hudon]

For De Joinville, who accompanied Saint Louis on his crusade and lived to write about it, so as contemporary as one can get, the ''gambison'' was the first thing a man would throw on in a hurry while under surprise attack from the saracens, there was no time to put on the mail, so just the padded garment had to do. There are many such references and Viollet Le Duc gives a few. To french speaking people there is no confusion about what a gambeson is and what purpose it serves, though there was a short lived debate about wearing the padded garment over the mail instead of under, again contemporary accounts, such as that by De Joinville, settled that dispute for most of us. The other terms aketon and pourpoint are later developments. You will also see justaucorps, which is descriptive of a tight fitting shorter garment which seems to be what some are referring to as ''pierpoint''. The ''pourpoint'' in french is mainly a civilian garment, though there certainly were padded versions for use under armor, with lots of eyelets to attach things, the first being the "chausses'', they had to be tied to something or other.
I don't know how modern students of armor have come to make what they feel are clear cut distinctions with what Greg referred to as the ''whip of standardization'', but my two cents worth would be to be carefull, especially as there are so many languages which use the same terms, and they have not felt the whip, and just keep on using the words according to their same understanding of them over the course of the last seven, eight or ten centuries.
For me gambesons came in different shapes and sizes and were worn under the mail coat ( cotte de mailles),until such time as they morphed into something else as outer armor, plate or coats of plates, rendered quasi obsolete the need for thicker padding. With a better shell than mail available, the layer closest to the skin didn't need to serve the same purpose as the earlier type of gambeson, so it could be 'justaucorps', tighter to the body. There are certainly examples of padded garments over mail, but who can say what was beneath the mail??Sometimes a guy might just feel that he needs that extra padding..

Cheers,
Jean-Carle

[Greg Mele]

[Alessandro Fantucci]

"Gambeson" is "Gambeson"

can't be translated..French or Belgian name for a particular type of protection.

Aketon is slightly different in shape and thikness.

In Italy in use the "Farsetto D'arme", especially in the central-south.

An example: The word "Computer" is not translated (only in Frace call it "Calculator")

forget my bad English

By by

[Randall Moffett]

Jean-Carle,

I thin Greg's earlier post regaring the two terms is about how many look at it. At least in England the term aketon is quite old. I do not have access to any of the dictionaries that might have the earliest uses at hand but I assume it as old or nearly as old as gambeson. David Nicolle has the idea of concurrent uses that may or may not be right. Having most of my background in English sources I cannot say but in general terms but it seems the terms are used interchangeably fairly often, at least by the period I study late 13th on into the 15th. The few French inventories (or men living in France) I have read usually use one over the other. Blair's section on these terms is by fair the best I have read on the subject as he was familiar with French sources and most of western European ones.

Alessandro and Greg,

It depends which King's Mirror we are talking about as there are many Mirrors in existence. There is a Scandinavian, I think Norwegian one that may be written in their tongue and would likely not use gambeson as they have their own words for padded armour.

Blair in his book state that the terms aketon and gambeson were often used for the same garment. He only sets them apart in his book for simplicity one being outside the other inside. Spending the time I do reading old MS and other accounts I agree. I have seen loads of aketons worn over armour and under and the same for gambeson for the period. It is more a modern assumption that in period they were as clear cut over all. I do not doubt that perhaps one over and under were of perhaps different thickness but to me that'd be impossible to prove unless one produced an example of a real medieval aketon or gambeson or a detailed account with all the design and weight involved.


RPM

[Johan S. Moen]

[Jason G. Smith]

[James Barker]

[Greg Mele]

[Greg Mele]

[Randall Moffett]

Greg,

I know I was just commenting on a comment that the word gambeson would remain unchanged as in this version I knew it was not the same as they have a wide array of padded armour words.

RPM