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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Swiss Sabre and two handed sabre handling Reply to topic
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Brent Rattan




Location: Texas
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Wed 21 Apr, 2004 3:43 pm    Post subject: Swiss Sabre and two handed sabre handling         Reply with quote

Hello to everyone. I am new to this forum and this is my first post (actually first on any forum anywhere). While I am at it, thank you to the myArmoury website creator, this is simply an outstanding website.

I am not sure how many out there will be able to help but my question is regarding the Swiss Sabre and other two handed/hand and a half sabers from that period. I am curious has to how they handle as compared to other swords. In my mind I see them as being similar to bastard swords with a lot of cutting and slashing but not much thrust. Please correct me if I am wrong. (I do own a CASI 16th Century Hand and a Half Sword; it is actually decent, heavy but really we balanced, couldnt beat the price). I have handled some hybrid saber-esque/longswords offered by Angelsword in the past but I am not sure if that would compare as they were not really meant for true two hand use.

I have always been fascinated with Swiss Sabres, Gross Messers etc and I am on the verge of purchasing a Swiss Sabre from Lutel. I saw the post earlier this year regarding the Lutel Swiss Sabre and as I had never seen one like that for sale elsewhere decided that it would be my next purchase.

The Lutel Swiss Sabre will run about $660 after shipping, which isn’t pocket change. Any comments regarding the quality of Lutel work is also appreciated. Thanks!

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Shawn Duncanson




Location: Spokane Wa
Joined: 05 Dec 2003

Posts: 49

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 12:31 pm    Post subject: Swiss sabre         Reply with quote

If you buy this you must,,,must post a review and pictures. Or you will feel my squirrely wrath! I love the swiss sabres and the kreigsmessers as well. In the future I will have a custom one made but I am soo broke right now its not even funny. The Lutel two haded sabre is supposed to handle like a longsword, as for the swiss sabre I dont know. Is this the design you are getting?


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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 2:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For more info on Lutel, check the reviews section of this website. I have their Swiss sabre, and like it a lot. You might want to check out the Kriegsmesser that Albion plan to release next year - it costs almost twice as much as the Lutel piece, but I think you will get more than twice the weapon.
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Brent Rattan




Location: Texas
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info!!!

Shawn, my plan is to get the Swiss Sabre as in the attached pic.

Bjorn, if you don't mind, what is the blade length and approximate weight of your Lutel Swiss Sabre? I was also curious as to how much curve there was in the blade.

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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 4:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

EDITED

Overall length: 117 cm
Blade length: 93 cm
Length of grip (including pommel): 23.5 cm
Guard width: 20m

I don't have a pic of it, but the curvature is a little different from the one in Nathan's collection (see the collection section on this site).

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Last edited by Björn Hellqvist on Thu 22 Apr, 2004 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brent Rattan




Location: Texas
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 8:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the specs!

Yours seems to have a much shorter grip and blade that the Kriegmesser in Nathan's collection. I envisioned something along those lines with a longer grip to more fully allow two handed use.

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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 11:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oops! Got the wrong specs! I didn't have the sabre close at hand, and used stats from a review which is in the works. The stats were for the Lutel Katzbalger (used an old review as a template).
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Shawn Duncanson




Location: Spokane Wa
Joined: 05 Dec 2003

Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: hmm         Reply with quote

I am confused, Bjorn do you have the swiss sabre or the kreigsmesser? I have not seen a reveiw of the swiss sabre on this site but I have seen the kreigsmesser. The pic I posted was of the hilt of the swiss sabre which is not on their site it seems I had to enquire about it to the pic.
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J.G. Grubbs




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PostPosted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 7:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've always been a fan of the Swiss saber as well. Just something inspiring in the lines of those pieces...

James

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Brent Rattan




Location: Texas
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 7:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, I agree they are super cool. I read in a Weapons book that I have that they lasted thoughout Swizterland and southern Germany until the 18th century.

They have a huge two handed sabre in the Tower Amoury in London, circa 1520 and the placard says most likely Fleimish in origin, so the style made it all the way up to England and Northern Europe early on. I will try to put up a post with pic's that I took of this version. It was adjacent to Henry VIII armour and seeing it there caught me by surprise.

Shawn, Lutel emailed me the same pic that you have as well as one of the Kriegmesser with belt and hanger to show me the style of hanger they use for the Swiss Sabre. Aparenlty they will not make a full scabbard for it.

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Shawn Duncanson




Location: Spokane Wa
Joined: 05 Dec 2003

Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 1:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know that is extremely annoying in the scabbard department! Why have a hanger with no scabbard? If you walk around with the blade haning out youwill cut you leg or turn and stab someone beside you with the point itn the shin.
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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 5:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shawn Duncanson wrote:
I know that is extremely annoying in the scabbard department! Why have a hanger with no scabbard? If you walk around with the blade haning out youwill cut you leg or turn and stab someone beside you with the point itn the shin.


I saw a period woodcut of a Landsknecht with a saber, and it appeared to have a hanger pretty much like the one supplied by Lutel. For safety reasons (my saber is pretty sharp), I've added a sheath.

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Brent Rattan




Location: Texas
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 5:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bjorn, does your sabre handing well one handed, or is it primarily a pure two hander?

Also, do you remember the woodcut? I am facsinated with Landsknects and would love to see an illustration of one wielding a saber.

As for the scabbard, yes, that does look period, but man I would hate to skewer an over curious kid if I carried it at a Ren Faire in that type of hanger!

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Scott Byler




Location: New Mexico
Joined: 20 Aug 2003

Posts: 209

PostPosted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 8:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brent Rattan wrote:

They have a huge two handed sabre in the Tower Amoury in London, circa 1520 and the placard says most likely Fleimish in origin, so the style made it all the way up to England and Northern Europe early on. I will try to put up a post with pic's that I took of this version. It was adjacent to Henry VIII armour and seeing it there caught me by surprise.

.



Shawn will tell you that I have no interest in 2 hand sabers, but yes... please put up pics anyway. Big Grin
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Shawn Duncanson




Location: Spokane Wa
Joined: 05 Dec 2003

Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: hmm         Reply with quote

Shawn Duncanson wrote:
I am confused, Bjorn do you have the swiss sabre or the kreigsmesser? I have not seen a reveiw of the swiss sabre on this site but I have seen the kreigsmesser. The pic I posted was of the hilt of the swiss sabre which is not on their site it seems I had to enquire about it to the pic.


Still confused, do they give you the kreigsmesser hanger with the swiss sabre?

Yes scott and I will bolth hunt you down (with swords) if pics are not posted, do you feel lucky? Evil

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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: hmm         Reply with quote

Shawn Duncanson wrote:
Still confused, do they give you the kreigsmesser hanger with the swiss sabre?


Now I'm confused - there's just one sabre on Lutel's site: the 10006 "Two-Handed Saber". It comes with a hanger and belt. Is there any other Lutel saber I don't know of?

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Joachim Nilsson





Joined: 29 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: hmm         Reply with quote

Björn Hellqvist wrote:
Shawn Duncanson wrote:
Still confused, do they give you the kreigsmesser hanger with the swiss sabre?


Now I'm confused - there's just one sabre on Lutel's site: the 10006 "Two-Handed Saber". It comes with a hanger and belt. Is there any other Lutel saber I don't know of?


I think they are referring to this one here.

But I've always thought that was a custom piece... Question Confused



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Brent Rattan




Location: Texas
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

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PostPosted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 6:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aha!

I suspected that we were talking about two different sabres!

Sorry to start a ball of confusion.

Mr. Nilsson has the correct picture attached and to further help clarify, I have attached the two pictures that Lutel sent me, one of the sabre's hilt close up and one to show me the type of hanger that they send with it, which is the same hanger they use for their model 10006 sabre.

That sabre image was posted on this site earlier this year titled European single-edged swords.



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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 1:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, that clarifies things quite a bit. I think that it will be for the best that we use the item/model numbers when discussing production swords in the future.
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Thomas Laible




Location: Wuppertal, Germany
Joined: 30 Jan 2005

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Jan, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brent Rattan wrote:
Bjorn, does your sabre handing well one handed, or is it primarily a pure two hander?

Also, do you remember the woodcut? I am facsinated with Landsknects and would love to see an illustration of one wielding a saber.

As for the scabbard, yes, that does look period, but man I would hate to skewer an over curious kid if I carried it at a Ren Faire in that type of hanger!


I know the thread is rather old, but I just joined the forum Cool

This is a sketch I did after a woodcut from 1500-20, I bleive this ist the one Björn mentioned.



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