Swiss Sabre and two handed sabre handling -- myArmoury.com

Brent Rattan

Hello to everyone. I am new to this forum and this is my first post (actually first on any forum anywhere). While I am at it, thank you to the myArmoury website creator, this is simply an outstanding website.

I am not sure how many out there will be able to help but my question is regarding the Swiss Sabre and other two handed/hand and a half sabers from that period. I am curious has to how they handle as compared to other swords. In my mind I see them as being similar to bastard swords with a lot of cutting and slashing but not much thrust. Please correct me if I am wrong. (I do own a CASI 16th Century Hand and a Half Sword; it is actually decent, heavy but really we balanced, couldnt beat the price). I have handled some hybrid saber-esque/longswords offered by Angelsword in the past but I am not sure if that would compare as they were not really meant for true two hand use.

I have always been fascinated with Swiss Sabres, Gross Messers etc and I am on the verge of purchasing a Swiss Sabre from Lutel. I saw the post earlier this year regarding the Lutel Swiss Sabre and as I had never seen one like that for sale elsewhere decided that it would be my next purchase.

The Lutel Swiss Sabre will run about $660 after shipping, which isn’t pocket change. Any comments regarding the quality of Lutel work is also appreciated. Thanks!

Shawn Duncanson · Posted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 12:31 pm Post subject: Swiss sabre

If you buy this you must,,,must post a review and pictures. Or you will feel my squirrely wrath! I love the swiss sabres and the kreigsmessers as well. In the future I will have a custom one made but I am soo broke right now its not even funny. The Lutel two haded sabre is supposed to handle like a longsword, as for the swiss sabre I dont know. Is this the design you are getting?

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

For more info on Lutel, check the reviews section of this website. I have their Swiss sabre, and like it a lot. You might want to check out the Kriegsmesser that Albion plan to release next year - it costs almost twice as much as the Lutel piece, but I think you will get more than twice the weapon.

Brent Rattan · Posted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 3:06 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the info!!!

Shawn, my plan is to get the Swiss Sabre as in the attached pic.

Bjorn, if you don't mind, what is the blade length and approximate weight of your Lutel Swiss Sabre? I was also curious as to how much curve there was in the blade.

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

EDITED

Overall length: 117 cm
Blade length: 93 cm
Length of grip (including pommel): 23.5 cm
Guard width: 20m

I don't have a pic of it, but the curvature is a little different from the one in Nathan's collection (see the collection section on this site).

Brent Rattan · Posted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 8:57 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the specs!

Yours seems to have a much shorter grip and blade that the Kriegmesser in Nathan's collection. I envisioned something along those lines with a longer grip to more fully allow two handed use.

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

Oops! Got the wrong specs! I didn't have the sabre close at hand, and used stats from a review which is in the works. The stats were for the Lutel Katzbalger (used an old review as a template).

Shawn Duncanson · Posted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 5:36 pm Post subject: hmm

I am confused, Bjorn do you have the swiss sabre or the kreigsmesser? I have not seen a reveiw of the swiss sabre on this site but I have seen the kreigsmesser. The pic I posted was of the hilt of the swiss sabre which is not on their site it seems I had to enquire about it to the pic.

J.G. Grubbs · Posted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 7:02 pm Post subject:

I've always been a fan of the Swiss saber as well. Just something inspiring in the lines of those pieces...

James

Brent Rattan · Posted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 7:48 am Post subject:

Yes, I agree they are super cool. I read in a Weapons book that I have that they lasted thoughout Swizterland and southern Germany until the 18th century.

They have a huge two handed sabre in the Tower Amoury in London, circa 1520 and the placard says most likely Fleimish in origin, so the style made it all the way up to England and Northern Europe early on. I will try to put up a post with pic's that I took of this version. It was adjacent to Henry VIII armour and seeing it there caught me by surprise.

Shawn, Lutel emailed me the same pic that you have as well as one of the Kriegmesser with belt and hanger to show me the style of hanger they use for the Swiss Sabre. Aparenlty they will not make a full scabbard for it.

Shawn Duncanson · Posted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject:

I know that is extremely annoying in the scabbard department! Why have a hanger with no scabbard? If you walk around with the blade haning out youwill cut you leg or turn and stab someone beside you with the point itn the shin.

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

Brent Rattan · Posted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject:

Bjorn, does your sabre handing well one handed, or is it primarily a pure two hander?

Also, do you remember the woodcut? I am facsinated with Landsknects and would love to see an illustration of one wielding a saber.

As for the scabbard, yes, that does look period, but man I would hate to skewer an over curious kid if I carried it at a Ren Faire in that type of hanger!

Scott Byler · Posted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 8:03 pm Post subject:

Shawn Duncanson · Posted: Sat 24 Apr, 2004 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: hmm

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

Joachim Nilsson · Posted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 5:28 am Post subject: Re: hmm

Brent Rattan · Posted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 6:34 am Post subject:

Aha!

I suspected that we were talking about two different sabres!

Sorry to start a ball of confusion.

Mr. Nilsson has the correct picture attached and to further help clarify, I have attached the two pictures that Lutel sent me, one of the sabre's hilt close up and one to show me the type of hanger that they send with it, which is the same hanger they use for their model 10006 sabre.

That sabre image was posted on this site earlier this year titled European single-edged swords.

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

Well, that clarifies things quite a bit. I think that it will be for the best that we use the item/model numbers when discussing production swords in the future.

Thomas Laible · Posted: Sun 30 Jan, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: