Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

Here is a rare 18th century Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar. It was fashioned from the Turkish Ottoman scimitar and the gold-gilded brass hilt has a scrollwork enclosing an expanded floral pattern chiseled in low relief, comprised of a cross-piece with bud-shaped terminals, a pair of langets, and an integral grip rising to form a bulbous pommel, retaining its original gold-gilded silver tassel. A curved single-edged Damascus steel blade with a watered pattern in its original old gild brass scabbard decorated over the surface with chiseled in low relief scrolling flowers and foliage on a punched ground, with large mounts comprising a pair of suspension mounts and large chape.
This sword is highly prized because of its appearance according to my opinion. Any suggestions?



 Attachment: 62.37 KB
suc82aa.jpg



Last edited by Shahril Dzulkifli on Sat 19 Jan, 2008 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 626

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thats a beautiful sword there. Sabers are my favorite sword and, as far as I'm concerned, the curvier, the better. I also really like that hatchet-point. Doesn't get much better than a heavily curved, hatchet-pointed saber. I'd rate it 9/10, only thing it needs for 10/10 is a slightly broader blade perhaps.

How do you like this one (shamelessly stolen from swordforum.com, Russian 1827 saber):



 Attachment: 13.02 KB
Russian 1827 Cavalry Officer Sabre.jpg


'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 1:21 am    Post subject: Re: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

You know Ian, to me that Russian sabre looks peculiar judging by its appearance. Many sabres don't have that kind of blade.
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 626

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
You know Ian, to me that Russian sabre looks peculiar judging by its appearance. Many sabres don't have that kind of blade.


Yes, I think it was almost certainly a ceremonial/dress piece. Unfortunately, its not my find and the original poster didn't have a lot of information about it.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,310

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 5:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Thats a beautiful sword there. Sabres are my favourite sword and, as far as I'm concerned, the curvier, the better. I also really like that hatchet-point. Doesn't get much better than a heavily curved, hatchet-pointed sabre. I'd rate it 9/10, only thing it needs for 10/10 is a slightly broader blade perhaps.

How do you like this one (shamelessly stolen from swordforum.com, Russian 1827 sabre):


Interesting sabre but I like the look of the less exaggeratedly curved one better, as well as have serious doubts about how such a sabre handles ! For ceremonial use it may not matter, but as with any feature there comes a point were it seems overdone. Eek! Cool

As to handling: I have an original shamshir with a good amount of curve in the blade, but much less than this one and the COG is 9" from the guard but also feels to be at some point over the top of the back of the blade giving waggy/wigglely feel if one moves the blade quickly from side to side: With the blade in the pic, I would imagine that the COG would be many inches over the blade floating in space and feel very strange in hand. Eek! Laughing Out Loud

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 626

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 6:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Quote:
Thats a beautiful sword there. Sabres are my favourite sword and, as far as I'm concerned, the curvier, the better. I also really like that hatchet-point. Doesn't get much better than a heavily curved, hatchet-pointed sabre. I'd rate it 9/10, only thing it needs for 10/10 is a slightly broader blade perhaps.

How do you like this one (shamelessly stolen from swordforum.com, Russian 1827 sabre):


Interesting sabre but I like the look of the less exaggeratedly curved one better, as well as have serious doubts about how such a sabre handles ! For ceremonial use it may not matter, but as with any feature there comes a point were it seems overdone. Eek! Cool

As to handling: I have an original shamshir with a good amount of curve in the blade, but much less than this one and the COG is 9" from the guard but also feels to be at some point over the top of the back of the blade giving waggy/wigglely feel if one moves the blade quickly from side to side: With the blade in the pic, I would imagine that the COG would be many inches over the blade floating in space and feel very strange in hand. Eek! Laughing Out Loud


Indeed, I imagine it would be nearly impossible to wield. Just looking at the tip in relation to the handle, to make a thrust your fist would need to be pointing nearly vertically towards the ground. By the way, I also find the curvature overdone (who wouldn't?), but in so many production blades I find it "underdone", just not quite exciting enough! I suppose the right balance can only be found in originals or custom pieces. That said Shahril's find has very nearly what I'd consider the perfect curvature.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,310

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 6:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ian: The first one shown has what I think the maximum amount or even the optimum amount of curve in a " using " sabre meant for use with a draw cut. A draw cut that just happens with no special effort and due 99% to the geometry of the blade.

It's also at the degree of curve that is still very good to look at. Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Gary A. Chelette




Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 29 May 2007
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 337

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can almost see a very nice looking lady dancing with this really curved saber on her head.
Maybe that's what it's for? Big Grin

Are you scared, Connor?
No, Cousin Dugal. I'm not!
Don't talk nonsense, man. I peed my kilt the first time I went into battle.
Oh, aye. Angus pees his kilt all the time!
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also take note of where the suspension rings are located on the scabbard of the Russian sword. This saber would be worn with the edge facing up.

Jonathan


Last edited by Jonathan Hopkins on Thu 17 Jan, 2008 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Anders Backlund




Location: Sweden
Joined: 24 Oct 2007

Posts: 629

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I rather like sabers, though I prefer more modest curvatures to the blade. These shamshir-type swords have a tendency to be too curved to appeal to my sense of aesthetics, which is too bad as they are nice weapons otherwise.
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
View user's profile Send private message
Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

To be exact, scimitars are not used for combat by aristocrats in Hungary but are used as their symbol of power like royals.
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas Watt




Location: Metrowest Boston
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not that it matters I suppose, but do you own this sword?
Your post doesn't make it clear (to me) that this is in your collection or in someone else's.
I ask because I wonder how it feels in the hand (and if it's locked up in a museum case you probably can't swing it around).
It is really a gorgeous blade.
Makes me itch to handle it...

Have 11 swords, 2 dirks, half a dozen tomahawks and 2 Jeeps - seem to be a magnet for more of all.
View user's profile Send private message
Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Fri 18 Jan, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

Thomas, I don't own that sword. If you want that sword you can buy it at Hundred & One Antiques (www.antiques-arms.com)
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 626

PostPosted: Fri 18 Jan, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
Thomas, I don't own that sword. If you want that sword you can buy it at Hundred & One Antiques (www.antiques-arms.com)


Not anymore, its been sold Wink

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas Watt




Location: Metrowest Boston
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Fri 18 Jan, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

Ian Hutchison wrote:
Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
Thomas, I don't own that sword. If you want that sword you can buy it at Hundred & One Antiques (www.antiques-arms.com)


Not anymore, its been sold Wink

Never fails.
Always a day late and a dollar short.

Anyone done any business with those folks? Good experiences? Comments?
I see a couple of other possibles there.
But that one was very nice.

Have 11 swords, 2 dirks, half a dozen tomahawks and 2 Jeeps - seem to be a magnet for more of all.
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 626

PostPosted: Fri 18 Jan, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

Thomas Watt wrote:
Ian Hutchison wrote:
Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
Thomas, I don't own that sword. If you want that sword you can buy it at Hundred & One Antiques (www.antiques-arms.com)


Not anymore, its been sold Wink

Never fails.
Always a day late and a dollar short.

Anyone done any business with those folks? Good experiences? Comments?
I see a couple of other possibles there.
But that one was very nice.


I have had no experiences with them but most of their stuff looks legit. However, I would always exercise caution regarding "antiques" from the Far East (e.g. China/Japan). Most of their Middle eastern/African/European stuff looks completely real and interesting.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional




Joined: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 132

PostPosted: Sat 19 Jan, 2008 5:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

(one thing, we call this kind of sword "szablya", or saber, not scimitar... Wink )
The other is, aristocrats (and anyone who had enough money for it, btw) did use these in combat, or to be more exact, mostly in duels. I'm too lazy right now, but if you wish, I can dig up some examples even from the 19th century, when these were worn like smallswords elsewhere, as a part of dress, but they used their sabers more often than others their smallswords...
(of course, there are exceptions and exceptions of exceptions, as always Laughing Out Loud )
View user's profile Send private message
Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Sat 19 Jan, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

At last! We have found ourselves an expert on Hungarian swords. Perhaps Adam himself can tell us more about that sword.
View user's profile Send private message
Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional




Joined: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 132

PostPosted: Mon 21 Jan, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sadly I can't say much more... I'm absolutely not an expert, just wanted to add these bits of info, which most hungarians know from history classes... Last thing that may be interesting (or not), is that it looks exactly like most of the 19th century hungarian sabers from here.
If I was bothering anyone, feel free to delete my posts. Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Tic





Joined: 25 Mar 2007

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon 21 Jan, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar         Reply with quote

Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
Thomas, I don't own that sword. If you want that sword you can buy it at Hundred & One Antiques (www.antiques-arms.com)


this one caught my attention



 Attachment: 49.58 KB
aaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg


Luka
View user's profile


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Hungarian Aristocrat's Scimitar
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum