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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 30 Jul, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Looking for photos of a particular kind of longsword         Reply with quote

Hey everybody-

By now many people know I'm interested in compound-hilted swords. Over the last few years I've had a particular interest in 16th century compound-hilted longswords.

I'm looking for examples of a particular type. It looks to be a symmetric type with downward sloping quillons, two side rings, finger rings, and loops connecting the finger rings to the side rings. A decorative motif of knobs/balls divide up the bars and act as finials and are often adorned with a twisted motif.

Thank you for any help you may provide.


I'll include some examples here:








Here is another example though I don't believe this one is necessarily original to the 16th century:












And you can see an example here just below the 9 o'clock position:


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Justin H. N˙˝ez




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PostPosted: Sat 30 Jul, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wonder what is up with the apparent one-hander at about 8.30 or so, next to the very wide bladed sword?
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Nicholas A. Gaese




Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2011 12:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

While I wish I were able to better contribute, I have to say these are lovely pics, particularly the last one. Two handers and longswords galore Big Grin (doesn't this spread look familiar Nathan, minus the multitude of schiavona Wink )

Speaking of the last pic, It's interesting to note that the said sword near 9 o-clock has a back sword blade of sorts, and the grip, unlike the previous two swords, is not waisted. Makes me wonder if it was replaced at a later time maybe? The inclusion of the grip tassels gives me that impression, though I might be wrong. Either way it is distinct from the other swords you've shown and I get the feeling that other swords in the style your looking for are likely similar to the first two mostly.

regards.
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Job Overbeek





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PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2011 1:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Justin H. N˙˝ez wrote:
I wonder what is up with the apparent one-hander at about 8.30 or so, next to the very wide bladed sword?

I wonder what's up with that saw-liek blade :P
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Harry Lindfors





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PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2011 8:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What a great photo that last one is!

Am I seeing things, or does that big two-hander that sits on top of that pile of goodness, actually get a lot wider towards the tip of the blade? What a beastly cutter it must be!
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry Lindfors wrote:
Am I seeing things, or does that big two-hander that sits on top of that pile of goodness, actually get a lot wider towards the tip of the blade?


Probably. I've seen a lot of originals that get wider towards the point in the same way.

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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2011 1:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Harry Lindfors wrote:
Am I seeing things, or does that big two-hander that sits on top of that pile of goodness, actually get a lot wider towards the tip of the blade?


Probably. I've seen a lot of originals that get wider towards the point in the same way.

Me too, including many "flammard" blades. Eyeballing based on my semi-reliable recollection, I'd say on beidenhńnders blades widening toward the tip seem significantly more common than tapering blades, and possibly as common as those with parallel edges.

This one, at least, looks likes it should be pretty well balanced with the massive hilt.

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Michael Harley




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PostPosted: Sat 06 Aug, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's one that appears to have all the same makers marks as the first one posted, no further information other than ca.1600.

Cheers,
Michael.



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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 06 Aug, 2011 7:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Harley wrote:
Here's one that appears to have all the same makers marks as the first one posted, no further information other than ca.1600.


Excellent find!! Thank you, Michael.

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Michal Spilka
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Aug, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

sending you one photo I took in Copenhagen┤s Tojhus museum.



Regards,
Michal

Michal Spilka
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Aug, 2011 10:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michal Spilka wrote:
Hi,

sending you one photo I took in Copenhagen┤s Tojhus museum.


That's a neat sword. Thank you for sharing it. I hadn't seen it before. The pommel shape is particularly elegant.

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Michael Harley




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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011 5:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Flickin' through old files I came across a few more, The one in the group shot from a 'Fricker Historische Waffen' catalouge, the other from 'Fischer Auctions Sept. 2007', catalouge in German so all I could make out was ca.1520, 1315mm.

As with people, I too am quite partial to complex bastards.

Cheers.



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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey, those are excellent finds of related swords. I like them.

Thank you for adding them here. They're going directly into my files!

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Evan G.




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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Funnily enough, I actually just created an account to ask about a similar type of longsword. It's good to see there's some actual examples of this, and it's not just something that someone sketched up.

All I have is a drawing from a woodcut collection, unfortunately. It doesn't say where the sword pictured actually resides, but its claim on the dates of these swords make them some of the earliest complex-hilts I've seen. I just scanned the whole page, along with the little blurb at the bottom which is all the explanation that's offered. This comes from Medieval Arms and Armor: A Pictorial Archive by J. H. Hefner-Alteneck. Since the picture is a bit too large for me to upload here, I stuck it on imgur.

http://i.imgur.com/uThJY.png
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011 7:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Evan G. wrote:
Funnily enough, I actually just created an account to ask about a similar type of longsword. It's good to see there's some actual examples of this, and it's not just something that someone sketched up.

All I have is a drawing from a woodcut collection, unfortunately. It doesn't say where the sword pictured actually resides, but its claim on the dates of these swords make them some of the earliest complex-hilts I've seen. I just scanned the whole page, along with the little blurb at the bottom which is all the explanation that's offered. This comes from Medieval Arms and Armor: A Pictorial Archive by J. H. Hefner-Alteneck. Since the picture is a bit too large for me to upload here, I stuck it on imgur.

http://i.imgur.com/uThJY.png


Welcome to the site! I'm glad to know of another who is interested in compound-hilted longswords of the period!

The sword you show there, though of a compound construction and of similar age, is of a different type. It's a "Swiss Saber" variety (a name that is not contemporary with the sword itself and is misleading in its own right). It also happens to be one of my favorite types so I'm happy to see your image. Thank you for posting it!

Please check out my custom-made variation: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=17910

And here is another custom-made hilt I've had made that is of the same period: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18817

You might also be interested in this topic to see other complex-hilted swords of the period: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=19720

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Evan G.




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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2011 9:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:

Welcome to the site! I'm glad to know of another who is interested in compound-hilted longswords of the period!

The sword you show there, though of a compound construction and of similar age, is of a different type. It's a "Swiss Saber" variety (a name that is not contemporary with the sword itself and is misleading in its own right). It also happens to be one of my favorite types so I'm happy to see your image. Thank you for posting it!

Please check out my custom-made variation: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=17910

And here is another custom-made hilt I've had made that is of the same period: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18817

You might also be interested in this topic to see other complex-hilted swords of the period: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=19720


Ah, so you're the owner of that Swiss "Saber," I've been drooling over that particular weapon for a year and a half now (couldn't figure out a way to say that without sounding like a creepy Internet stalker. Sorry.) and it's actually the reason that woodcut caught my eye. I've been trying to come up with a way to own one, but I just can't afford it. I kind of wonder if a custom shop would make me a practice version, with fewer flourishes and an unsharpened blade; that way I could actually use it, and maybe they'd take mercy on me and not charge as much. Something along the lines of Albion's Liechtenauer, just with the weight, balance, general blade profile, and hilt of this type of sword.

What I CAN afford are books, though, and I've got nearly 1000 pages worth of old woodcuts and photographs on my bookshelves right now. I'll probably go through the others and see if I don't have more complex-hilted bastard swords that have escaped my notice so far. If I do find some more, I'll definitely post them.

EDIT: Just got done checking through all my books. There were a few more complex bastards, but none that were quite like the type you were looking for. Oh well, I'll just take that to mean I need more books Big Grin
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Cornelis Tromp




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PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 12:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

2 more from national Museum in Croatie.


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Scott Baltic
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan,

Not sure about this very specific type of complex/developed hilt, but the Styrian Arsenal in Graz, Austria, has a booklet (which I have a copy of) that includes several photos of this general type of hilt.

http://www.museum-joanneum.at/en/styrian_armo...ications-4

Scott Baltic

Publisher/Managing Editor
Western Martial Arts Illustrated
<www.wmaillustrated.com>
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

While of a different form, some details of this sword remind me of the style discussed here.

Does anybody know where this sword is located?



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Circa 1520

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Jul, 2014 12:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe the sword attached below to be the same sword as seen in my first post in this topic. It's been sold and moved around but this has the same blade markings. Interesting! I wondered what had happened to it.

Quote:
A German or Swiss Hand-And-A-Half Sword, Circa 1530-1550, with a broad 107cm tapering blade cut with two fullers on each face, rectangular ricasso, formed with blunted edges for grip, cut with fullers on each side continuing from the blade and incised with a decorative border line, bearing blamarks, steel hilt of circular bars, interrupted by globular mouldings, with a pair of down-turned quillons with globular terminals, with spirally fluted pear-shaped pommel and leather-covered wooden grip, 131cm.


It sold at Baldwins for ú6,000 ($10,197 at the time of this posting).

Sources:
Baldwin's & Dreweatts London
PDF Catalog -- Lot 184, Page 80



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A German or Swiss Hand-And-A-Half Sword, Circa 1530-1550

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