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Colt Reeves





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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 5:43 pm    Post subject: Jedi Swordsmenship Techniques?         Reply with quote

Hey everyone, I wanted to talk about Jedi swordsmanship. How good are their skills? Can they beat a knight in swordfighting? How 'bout a samurai or ninja? Or maybe a Klingon? Please discuss.
























Yeah, depending on the time zone it's no longer the First, but whatever. I apologize if this doesn't compare to Albion's April Fool's, but look on the bright side: It was free!

"Tears are for the craven, prayers are for the clown.
Halters for the silly neck that cannot keep a crown.
As my loss is grievous, so my hope is small.
For Iron, Cold Iron, must be master of men all..."
-Cold Iron, Rudyard Kipling
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Isaac H.




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As always,Hollywood fighting is just that : it has nothing to do with real life.This is just a generalization,however.There are some movies that have decent fighting techniques in them,for example Ridley Scott's The Duellists.However,fighting with lightsabers is pure fantasy,so there is no technique to base it off of.One must,for the most part, make it up.A lightsaber is facinating,because it is very lightweight,and almost no significant force is necessary to render a killing blow.So the fighting styles should lend themselves to elegance,but that is rarely seen in in the films,with the notable exception of Count Dooku.Of course a Jedi could kill any other swordsman because of his superior weapon.Katana Vs. lightsaber hmmmm...I wonder what weapon will win? Wink

Of course,then we must consider that a large portion of any well trained Jedi's techniques rely on using the "force".
UH OH
I think you may have opened a perverbial can of worms here.Oh well,it will be interesting Big Grin Razz Eek!

Wounds of flesh a surgeons skill may heal...

But wounded honor is only cured with steel.

We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves.
Each of us should please his neighbor for his good ,to build him up.
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Jedi Swordsmenship Techniques?         Reply with quote

Colt Reeves wrote:
Hey everyone, I wanted to talk about Jedi swordsmanship. How good are their skills? Can they beat a knight in swordfighting? How 'bout a samurai or ninja? Or maybe a Klingon? Please discuss.


While serious answers might not be what you're looking for, you can find some in Nick Jamilla's "Sword Fighting in the Star Wars Universe".

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Ben P.




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 7:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Happy April Fools everyone. : )
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 7:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben P. wrote:
Happy April Fools everyone. : )


Yes but the funniest thing about this joke is to try to answer it seriously. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud Cool

Knight , Samurai, Ninja, Klingon all lose to the Light Sabre because the Light Sabre can cut all physical materials like they where not even there, so blocking or parrying doesn't work with a steel sword or Klingon Bathlet:

http://www.google.ca/images?client=safari&...mp;bih=979

Oh, the defeating Japanese armour Topic and the other Topics about piercing or cutting armour are all " defeated " by the Light Sabre since it will also cut through armour.

So the only thing that can stop the Light sabre is the force/containment field of the energy beam itself of another Light Sabre: One knows this to be true because that is what we see in the Star Wars movies and thus " Canon " as they say in Trekky Speak ".

No half swording if you care for your own hand and fingers and don't try to scabbard ???? a Light Sabre without turning it off first.

Little or no mass so a lot of modern fencing technique using just the fingers would be functional so one would see many more subtle techniques than in the films where they give the handling of the Light Sabres the look of handling swords with substantial blade presence. ( So the Light Sabre could also be called the Light-Weight Sabre: Double meaning here for LIGHT. Razz ).

So, how am I doing taking the Topic much much TOO seriously. Wink Razz

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 10:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Laser swords is scary!!!
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Gottfried P. Doerler




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 1:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

One knows this to be true because that is what we see in the Star Wars movies and thus " Canon " as they say in Trekky Speak ".


uffffff, thats a wicked one. Laughing Out Loud
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 2:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

While republic era light sabers are obviosly weightless designs, the later imperial era ones seem to have a significant amount of mass.
This could be the result of an addition of torqe enhancers during the late stages of the clone wars due to the focus on the bind in millitary lightsaber combat, the later being a clear result of the precognition abilities of the users.
When the prime use war to impress peasants and deflect blaster fire, light light sabres where perfect. When defending your life against the Sith, you want a more stopping power.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Kurt Scholz





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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 3:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There's something strange about light sabres. They have no guard, so simply sliding down on the blade to cut off the wielders hands should be a very common move. In case someone finds a guard that's out of some kind of material, hey presto we have found what a samurai or knight needs as armour to fight this bunch of religious heretics.
A nice pommel would also be a good idea, perhaps with a short light sabre to serve as a kind of dagger that can be separated.
Something else I wonder about is the short length of light sabres and that they aren't for example integrated with blasters. So beware if I ever turn Sith.
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Ken Speed





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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A belated happy April First to everybody!

Jean Thibodeau wrote,"Knight , Samurai, Ninja, Klingon all lose to the Light Sabre because the Light Sabre can cut all physical materials like they where not even there, so blocking or parrying doesn't work with a steel sword or Klingon Bathlet......."

OK, but you know what I've never been able to understand is that when Luke or some other Jedi loses his sword why doesn't it just keep cutting whatever it touches? As I remember they didn't have kill switches.

So if you dropped an activated light saber point down would it just keep falling forever? Is this a new definition of infinity?

Gaah! I'm scaring myself now, I still have to live in this head, I don't want it cluttered up with such nonsense!
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Christian G. Cameron




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 5:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

But since it can cut through material objects (yes, I'm bitten too by this virus) it might have real trouble parrying against a steel weapon. Imagine a full-weight cut delivered with a pass--you could force the jedi to parry, cutting your sword in half at the meza spada, and kill him with the lower half of your sword.

Pretty much a one use tactic, but heck, it's a Hollywood universe.

Christian G. Cameron

Qui plus fait, miex vault

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Simon G.




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 5:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
In case someone finds a guard that's out of some kind of material, hey presto we have found what a samurai or knight needs as armour to fight this bunch of religious heretics.

The Extended Codices speak of several lightsaber-resistant materials. In the Kotoriewski Bible, 13th book, 4r, vambraces made of phrikite are shown to stop a lightsaber. Though there is considerable debate among scholars whether this is an accurate depiction of historical lightsaber combat or an embellished allusion to the famous legend of the hand st Luke (found in the Second Holy Book of the Holy Trilogy).

Quote:
Something else I wonder about is the short length of light sabres

Again, the Extended Codices (which some shun, but they are heretics) speak of lightsabers of variable lengths. Jedi Knight Corranus Horn is revealed to have build one in the anonymous I.33 Jedi fechtbuch. I think this clearly shows that a fully-developed lightsaber could beat anyone. Do you imagine how powerful you would be if you could make a scheitelhau three metres away and then suddenly extend your blade to hit your opponent?

The need (usually) for two hands for gripping a lightsaber is to have better control; I don't think it's about weight (plus, think about it: a nearly weightless weapon, and with no blade presence at all, must be actually more difficult to control, than a well-balanced longsword). In most depictions of lightsaber combat there is a heavy reliance on binden but without the many follow-ups included in the German school.

The explanation is obvious. When we call Lichtenauer, Ringeck or Talhoffer "masters" it is with good reasons, they were Jedi Masters and they foresaw the day when all Jedis would have to wield lightsabers in deadly combat against the Sith. The whole Lichtenauer system is in fact developed with the lightsaber in mind. What we think as "longswords", depicted in the sources, are in fact artists' rendition of the future lightsabers - and we can safely assume that all period longswords held in museums etc. are incorrectly thought of as real weapons, they were, in fact, trainers to prepare the future generations of Jedi knights. Alas, most of the advanced techniques of Jedi Masters Lichtenauer, Ringeck and Talhoffer were lost because, at the beginning of the 21st century of the christian era, they were completely discredited in the mind of the public as being strictly historical (and not, as they really were, made for the future) by a group of scholars from a movement called "HEMA" (or sometimes "HES"). According to recent research, many prominent members of this movement were in fact Siths in disguise, among which Darth Grandy and Darth Tobler.




PS : I apologise for the heavy portion of Star Wars nerdity included in this post, but apparently I'm not alone - whew.
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Craig Wrenn




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 9:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A katana can cut a light saber in half, I swear it's true, I saw it on you tube.
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Colt Reeves





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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think most of your responses are funnier than my OP, particularly yours Simon.

And Ken, according to EU (Expanded Universe, I.E. the books and video games, which are considered secondary canon by Lucas Arts) lightsabres have a variety of switches customized as the particular user prefers. Some even have no external parts and the switch is on the inside, only able to be activated by the use of the Force.

If I remember correctly, when Darth Vader prepares to throw his lightsabre at Luke during the duel in Return of the Jedi you can see him doing something to the hilt, which some have interpeted as him fiddling with the switch before the throw. This implies that in his case, he set up his lightsabre to only stay on while in his hand and had to rig it to do otherwise when thrown.

I also recall an incident in one of the books where a lightsabre is dropped point first while on. Apparently the blade is narrower than the hilt and thus it could not just fall through the ground. With the blade being weightless, when the hilt hit it flipped onto its side, cutting an neat little arc in the floor as it did so.

"Tears are for the craven, prayers are for the clown.
Halters for the silly neck that cannot keep a crown.
As my loss is grievous, so my hope is small.
For Iron, Cold Iron, must be master of men all..."
-Cold Iron, Rudyard Kipling
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Werner Stiegler





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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Samurai will always win, simply because not even a lightsaber can block the vacuum slash of the Katana.
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Ken Speed





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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Darth Tobler? Isn't he the guy that invented those triangular chocolate bars?

So why don't the light saber people get some of that invisible super aluminum Albion was using about a year ago and make crossguards for the light sabers? Hmmmm, would that be like an unstoppable force hitting an immovable object?

What did you say? It was invisible aluminum and the guys at Albion put it somewhere and can't find it? NAW.........Darth Chaney knows where it is, its with those WMA's in Iraq!!!
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 10:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ken Speed wrote:
Darth Tobler? Isn't he the guy that invented those triangular chocolate bars?



With all due respect that would be Darth Christian Henry Toblerone AKA DCHT Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toblerone


" Toblerone was created by Theodor Tobler and Emil Baumann in Bern, Switzerland in 1908. " Surprised WTF?!

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Colt Reeves





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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmm... We should start calling Christian Tobler Darth Tobler. It would be funny, if the next time he logs in he misses this thread and can't figure out why everyone keeps referring to him as Darth Tobler. Wink


Edit: And the thought just occurred to me: Two there are, so which is the master and which is the apprentice? To further show my geekiness, I would point out that although there are only two Sith, there can be an unlimited number of Dark Jedi as per EU. So... myArmoury.com is a haven for the Dark Side! There are Dark Jedi everywhere. What have I done? I am among them now, I've turned to the Dark Side!

If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny...

"Tears are for the craven, prayers are for the clown.
Halters for the silly neck that cannot keep a crown.
As my loss is grievous, so my hope is small.
For Iron, Cold Iron, must be master of men all..."
-Cold Iron, Rudyard Kipling


Last edited by Colt Reeves on Sat 02 Apr, 2011 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 10:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Colt Reeves wrote:
Hmmm... We should start calling Christian Tobler Darth Tobler. It would be funny, if the next time he logs in he misses this thread and can't figure out why everyone keeps referring to him as Darth Tobler. Wink


On the side of " GOOD " he could be OH - B - ONE TOBLER ...... ( Hope he enjoys the joke ).

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Simon G.




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 11:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
And the thought just occurred to me: Two there are, so which is the master and which is the apprentice? To further show my geekiness, I would point out that although there are only two Sith, there can be an unlimited number of Dark Jedi as per EU.


I almost made a joke about Darth Bane's Rule of Two, but decided it was just too much nerdiness in one serving. Glad someone else thought of it. Geek minds think alike, don't they say?

(As an aside, I am sometimes scared/saddened by the fact that I probably know Star Wars trivia better than the Fechtbücher).

I am 100% behind your idea of revealing Christian's true nature by calling him "Darth Tobler". Unfortunately, I think all HEMA masters (in violation of the Rule of Two) become Sith masters at a time, though like many of us they start with the best of intentions. The only possible way to attain salvation is to reject the idea that these martial arts are "historical", and to seek guidance from Hollywood, where, methinks (as evidenced by the Star Wars movies among others) the only reliable traces of Jedi Master Lichtenauer's ideas remain.
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