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Alberto P.





Joined: 11 Sep 2009

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 7:46 am    Post subject: help: problems with a helmet         Reply with quote

Hello,
I urgently need to have information on the helmet of the photo, Question precise dating, collection or museum where it is and if there are other photos of this model. help!
I also need to know what good was the ring that is located on the front of the helmet.
thanks



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Paul Finn





Joined: 15 Dec 2009

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I my self would like to know more about this helmet. I have posted your pic if you don't mine for user to view on. hopefully this would help them identify more quickly ..


Paul Finn
Dread Disease Versicherung
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Alberto P.





Joined: 11 Sep 2009

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 9:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Happy , we hope to soon get new information
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Allan Senefelder
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Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,563

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is an early form of burgeonette, sometimes I believe refered to as a sturmheub. I believe this one dates to around 1500-1510. I would assume that the piece on the front was perhaps for some sort of face plate. I may be wrong but I believe at the time this picture was taken ( c. 1900- 1920 ) it was in the German National Museum. The pic is from before the war so where it is now I don't know.
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Daniel Sullivan




Location: California
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
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Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 10:20 am    Post subject: Helmet         Reply with quote

Alberto,

This probably won't help much, but just to add to the info from Allan.....

There is a fluted Austrian armet (1510-20) in the Victoria and Albert Museum that has a very similar staple. In this case it is mounted on the overlapping right cheek piece. A photo caption of 1960s states, "The staple pierced with an eye........is a peculiar feature; its function is uncertain." I have always thought it was for some sort of reinforcing plate for the chin joint.

Thanks for posting the photos. Have only seen a few similar helmets, but only in woodcuts, etc.

Regards,
Dan
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As Allan said. It was an extremely common light infantry helmet, judging from Austrian art of the period. I've always assumed that the staple is for a narrow pivoting nasal, and I vaguely recall seeing that in a Dürer woodcut. A variant of this helmet is made of small overlapping scales, presumably stitched to a padded fabric cap. Here is a TINY sampling of Austrian images to chew on--there are hundreds at IMAREAL:


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Tue 15 Dec, 2009 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A few more:


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Kevin P Molloy




Location: USA
Joined: 17 Feb 2006

Posts: 105

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
A variant of this helmet is made of small overlapping scales, presumably stitched to a padded fabric cap. :


Can you post any pictures of these helmets?

Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the Ancient Sword is O'Molloy of the Freeborn Name"... O'Dugain(d.1372AD)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is typical, ca. 1517. Discussion here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11664


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Alberto P.





Joined: 11 Sep 2009

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 2:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean

is a very interesting one of your images, the first of your second post. Can you tell me the author and where is it? and maybe you have one a little bigger?



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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 6:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kunstwerk: Malerei-Holz ; Einrichtung sakral ; Flügelaltar-Werktagsseite
Dokumentation: 1518 ; 1518 ; Sebes ; Rumänien ; Siebenbürgen ; Evang. Kirche
Anmerkungen: 145x110



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Alberto P.





Joined: 11 Sep 2009

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 10:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thanks sean! Happy
Since I'm going to make me a replica of the helmet of the picture, if you have any further information, images and photos let me know ...
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec, 2009 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll pass along anything else I find. By the way, it might be possible to modify a cheap "celtic" helmet like the old Windlass "Celtic Boar Helmet". There are more current versions around. Those are simple steel bowls of this size, with decent liners. A bit of hammer work at front and rear, cutouts on the sides and creation of the laminated cheek guards....
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec, 2009 10:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am from Romania, Hunedoara, about 68 km from Sebes ... and also I am a member of a medieval reenactment group in Hunedoara. I never saw that painting but It looks interesting. I will try to find out more.
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