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Allen Foster





Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 6:27 am    Post subject: Does anyone know what this is?         Reply with quote

While labeled (I believe erroneously) as a falchion,
this weapon seems to be 'not quite' a dussack and
yet, 'not quite' a messer.


Thoughts?

-J.



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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 7:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Can you tell us what the scene is supposed to show? If it's a Biblical story or something from an ancient writer, it was pretty common to "classicize" or "anachronize" details to make the scene look archaic. So it might just be a made-up weapon that the artist thought of as looking old-fashioned. But I don't spot any glaring "neo-classical" bits, so maybe that's not the case.

Matthew
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Craig Johnson
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Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 7:04 am    Post subject: Hi Allen         Reply with quote

My guess would be it would have been called a falchion or messer in period depending n where you originated and the local custom.

Check this topic for much good discussion The Difference Between a Messer and a Falchion?

Best
Craig
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Allen Foster





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PostPosted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm trying to get answers to the questions on the painting.

In the meantime, how close or not is it to this photograph labeled Italian Falchion.



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Phil D.




Location: Texas
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I forget where I got these.I've had them saved for a while but there are similar samples...
"A bottle of wine contains more philosophy than all the books in the world." -- Louis Pasteur

"A gentleman should never leave the house without a sharp knife, a good watch, and great hat."
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Allen Foster





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PostPosted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Craig,

That was a good lead (see below) and it seems to match the blade shape although the guards are different.

Number 3 is a falchion from the Zaton altar-piece dated 1430. Number 4 is a falchion fom the King Wenceslas Bible. Number 5 is the knife in the painting of the Madonna with St. Bartholomew and Margaret dating from about 1400. Number 6 is a soldier's sabre from the Rajhrad altar-piece painting of the Carrying of the Cross, dating prior to 1420. Number 7 is a falchion dating from about 1430 from the Hyrov votive altar piece, "The Madonna with the Donors". Number 8 is a falchion from the Rajhrad altar-piece painting of the Ressurection dating prior to 1420. Numbers 5, 6, and 7 may be called messers based on their hilt form.



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Lee O'Hagan




Location: Northamptonshire,England
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Phil,
Those are swords made and pictured by Paul Macdonald,
Macdonald armoury,Scotland.
Wink Cool
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Greg Coffman




Location: Lubbock, TX
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The blade looks like a messer. The guard looks like a messer. The pommel looks like a messer. Why can't it be a messer? The pommel is the telling feature to me and is the main thing I look for to tell the difference.

The way I understand it, the difference between a messer and a falchion is in the hilt construction. Falchions have hilts constructed just like swords. Messers are constructed like knives. As far as blade geometry there seems to be a fair amount of overlap. But I imagine there is almost no difference in terms of handling, performance, function, etc. Shorter, curved blades seem to have been used across Europe throughout the Medieval-Renaissance period. They may have looked a bit different and been called different things at different times and in different places...but so did all the other swords shapes too.

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
-Hebrews 4:12
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