Does anyone know what this is? -- myArmoury.com

Allen Foster · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: Does anyone know what this is?

While labeled (I believe erroneously) as a falchion,
this weapon seems to be 'not quite' a dussack and
yet, 'not quite' a messer.

Thoughts?

-J.

Matthew Amt · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 7:02 am Post subject:

Can you tell us what the scene is supposed to show? If it's a Biblical story or something from an ancient writer, it was pretty common to "classicize" or "anachronize" details to make the scene look archaic. So it might just be a made-up weapon that the artist thought of as looking old-fashioned. But I don't spot any glaring "neo-classical" bits, so maybe that's not the case.

Matthew

Craig Johnson · Industry Professional

My guess would be it would have been called a falchion or messer in period depending n where you originated and the local custom.

Check this topic for much good discussion The Difference Between a Messer and a Falchion?

Best
Craig

Allen Foster · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 8:37 am Post subject:

I'm trying to get answers to the questions on the painting.

In the meantime, how close or not is it to this photograph labeled Italian Falchion.

Phil D. · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 8:54 am Post subject:

I forget where I got these.I've had them saved for a while but there are similar samples...

Allen Foster · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 9:15 am Post subject:

Thanks Craig,

That was a good lead (see below) and it seems to match the blade shape although the guards are different.

Number 3 is a falchion from the Zaton altar-piece dated 1430. Number 4 is a falchion fom the King Wenceslas Bible. Number 5 is the knife in the painting of the Madonna with St. Bartholomew and Margaret dating from about 1400. Number 6 is a soldier's sabre from the Rajhrad altar-piece painting of the Carrying of the Cross, dating prior to 1420. Number 7 is a falchion dating from about 1430 from the Hyrov votive altar piece, "The Madonna with the Donors". Number 8 is a falchion from the Rajhrad altar-piece painting of the Ressurection dating prior to 1420. Numbers 5, 6, and 7 may be called messers based on their hilt form.

Lee O'Hagan · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject:

Phil,
Those are swords made and pictured by Paul Macdonald,
Macdonald armoury,Scotland.
Wink

Greg Coffman · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject:

The blade looks like a messer. The guard looks like a messer. The pommel looks like a messer. Why can't it be a messer? The pommel is the telling feature to me and is the main thing I look for to tell the difference.

The way I understand it, the difference between a messer and a falchion is in the hilt construction. Falchions have hilts constructed just like swords. Messers are constructed like knives. As far as blade geometry there seems to be a fair amount of overlap. But I imagine there is almost no difference in terms of handling, performance, function, etc. Shorter, curved blades seem to have been used across Europe throughout the Medieval-Renaissance period. They may have looked a bit different and been called different things at different times and in different places...but so did all the other swords shapes too.