replica of swords that belonged to achilles and odysseus -- myArmoury.com

Justin Pasternak

On the website that I found this image of replicated bronze swords said that the top sword is a copy of the sword that belonged to Odysseus and the bottom sword belonged to Achilles?

Is there any proof to back this up?

Roger Hooper · Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject:

Those look like the Mycenaean swords that Albion used to sell. If I remember right, one was called the Odysseus cutter, and the other, the Achilles thruster. There was no claim that these were the actual swords of those guys - just a marketing device. Is this other website you refer to making that claim?

Justin Pasternak · Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject:

Yes, Roger the other website is making that claim. I'm currently trying to find the "URL" to that website that I found the image from.

Steve Grisetti

Michael Eging · Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject:

Great Steve. First no Tooth Fairy and now this.... Cool

What's next?

Sam Barris

Matt G · Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 11:20 pm Post subject:

Ok, this is going by memory (so don't bet the rent money on it) but I believe the names used by Albion were taken from the book by the author Peter Connolly titled, "The Ancient Greece of Odysseus".

In the book, illustrations show Odysseus carrying the sword that is attributed to his namesake, although Connolly makes no claim whatsoever that this sword type has any link to the hero Odysseus. The sword called the "Achilles Mycenaen Thrusting Sword" by Albion was illustrated in the book, but again, not linked by Connolly to the character Achilles.

I think Albion's intention was to provide memorable names for the swords, not to mislead. They did make reference to the book on the website at the time these swords were offered. Hope that helps.

Bruno Giordan

Sorry to give the last blow but every european gymnasium student knows hat homer itself is not a verified historical figure: scholars are debating still today on wether he was a single person or just a name for a collective work of many poems carryng on a popular epic through soem centuries of stratification.

Achilles and Odusseus as well as all the Troy\'s epic characters are likely based on historical figures, however it is all shrouded into myth, just in the way your King Arthur is.

The only certainity from archeological finds is the existence of a Troy town, but that\\\\\\\'s where we stop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy

Many peoples tried to link their heritage to Troy, starting from the Romans (who needed a legend to justify to their invasion of Greece as well as a noble origin), going back to the current legend linking Venetians to the paleo-greek Eneti.

In short, Achilleus\' sword is as true as a King Arthur\\\\\\\'s one.

Roger Hooper · Posted: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 7:23 am Post subject:

The best you can say is that the shadowy men that Achilles and Odysseus are based on could have carried swords that were sort of like the ones pictured in the first post of this thread..

I don't believe Albion made these bronze swords themselves, but imported them from the land of Elsewhere. I never held one myself, but the consensus was that they were overweight clunkers, and Albion stopped selling them.

If you want a good Bronze Age replica sword, you should contact Neil Burridge in the UK http://www.templeresearch.eclipse.co.uk/bronz...r_sale.htm

Matthew Amt · Posted: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 9:25 am Post subject:

Yup, pretty much what everyone else said! Those are my swords, by the way, though they look much better now:

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/moatGs6.jpg

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/moatGs7.jpg

As they come from Albion, they don't look too bad, but they're way too heavy. The Indians who cast them screwed up! I ground these both down to about half their original weight to get them to a more realistic heft, then put the hilts on.

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/BAweapons.html

For what it's worth, Homer is probably a much better source than most people give him credit for. Once the horribly messed-up chronology for that era is fixed, it will be seen that he lived much closer in time to the events he describes. He talks about real places, his ship list is practically straight out of Mycenaean records, and the names of several of his characters are apparently mentioned in Hittite accounts. A lot of other "legends" and historical accounts tie in to the Trojan War stories. You don't know how hard it is to research an era when the primary literary sources are callously dismissed as myths! The comparison to King Arthur is very apt.

Khairete!

Matthew

Neil Langley · Posted: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 10:33 am Post subject:

Kirk Lee Spencer · Posted: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject:

Hi all...

Albion's Odysseus sword is based on the Woodhouse "sword" in the British Museum. I think it got its name from the Woodhouse family that donated it. It is supposed to have been found in Ithaka Greece. That is probably where the connection with the legendary Odysseus... for in Homer's Odyssey, Odysseus is the king of Ithaka.

I hilted one of these Albion swords some time ago... if anyone is interested here is the link:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1547&start=0

The thread shows archeological drawings and color photos of the Woodhouse find. The main difference is that Albion's version has been lengthened by a few inches and is much heavier.

ks

Douglas G. · Posted: Sat 03 Mar, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject:

Dear Kirk,
I was wondering if you were going to share your sword with us again for this thread. Whenever I see bronzes
I always compare them mentally with your sword which leaves many wanting. This is still one of the coolest
swords I've seen. Have you done any other bronze weapons since? I haven't had a good envy for a while!

Best,
Doug G.

Kirk Lee Spencer · Posted: Sun 04 Mar, 2007 8:44 am Post subject:

Douglas G. · Posted: Sun 04 Mar, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject:

Kirk,
I really like both Burridge's Antennae and Urnfield swords. The trouble is, sword money being on the tight side
for me for a while, if I bought, how to pick one and not agonize over not choosing the other. So for now I just look
at both and sigh.
The amber trim is intriguing, is there an historic precedent? It would be cool to have a piece set in the pommel
with some fierce bug like a scorpion transfixed in it. I look forward to seeing the finished sword!

Cheers!
Doug Gentner