[John McKelvy]

Hi all,

I'm considering getting a longsword to pair with my old Atrim XVIa. I'm particularly interested in the 1420's-1430ss as an era, central Europe as a location. This is the era of Jan van Eyck and Kastenbrust armor. I'm not a reenactor, but I'd prefer a sword that would fit this context. I also am training HEMA, so something appropriate for longsword drills and cutting would be a bonus.

My choices so far are:

Albion Talhoffer
--> Question is, does the club-style of crossguard fit into this time period? The earliest evidence I can find would be some of the XVa's from the Castillon find. Close, but not a perfect fit?

Albion Regent
I absolute adore everything about this sword from an aesthetic perspective... Here, the question is about the pommel. Oakeshott claims that type V fishtails show up in art frequently in my target time period ... but after a lot of digging I haven't found any conclusive evidence. There are some manuscript illustrations that COULD show a fishtail, but again, no smoking guns.

Albion Munich
Again, what a gorgeous sword. Probably close to a modern feder in terms of handling, as well. But am I wrong in thinking that these types of swords are 1470s and later?

Albion Earl
Another winner, in terms of looks. Has a very "Middle Earth" vibe to it. Do we have any evidence for the s-curved crossguard in period? (1430-1450)

Albion Ringeck
This one seems the safest from a time-frame standpoint - crescent crossguards, scentstoppers, and XVa blades are all easy to find. Unfortunately this one just doesn't excite my interest as much as the others.


So to reiterate my question, which of these would fit the 2nd quarter of the 15th century best? Any insights appreciated!

[Blaz Berlec]

There is another Albion sword that would fit right in the middle of selected time period and area, but it's probably too expensive - Albion Ljubljana. Not only is the original find from Central Europe, there are very similar swords displayed in frescoes from that time period around here.

About other swords -

I think Albion Talhoffer fits very well. The crossguard isn't well represented at that time in an area, but mainly also because it's a small detail that would be simplified on a wall painting. That and the RIngeck.

The Regent and the Earl are both more mid to late 15th century - in their crossguard and blade styles, although Oakeshott writes you do see S-shaped guards back in 1430, hollow ground XVIIIb blades existed in that date... They are just not common anywhere by that date, and Central Europe was a bit conservative compared to France, Burgundy, England, Italy in some ways...

Munich is dated around 1500 by the Bavarian Museum now, not 1450-80, as Oakeshott places it. Also, although this sword and Albion Ljubljana are placed in XVIIIb type, they are both quite different than the Regent and Earl - they are much more thrust oriented, and their blades that start thick and don't have aggressive distal taper surprise people. They definitely don't feel like feders, especially due to their rigidity.

I think the most common swords seen in Central European artwork of that period are XVa or XVIIIb swords with disc or scent stopper pommel and a simple straight or slightly curved guard - a combination that Albion covers with the Agincourt and Ringeck - but I think to many that kind of grip area looks "outdated" on such a "modern" type of blade.