[Pedro Paulo Gaião]

I have been discussing some swords sold in auctions, but I think it would be better to show them here, the first two I believe to be forgeries, while the third one might have historical.



It's claimed, without much info or sources, it's a Merovingian sword dated 600 AD, apparently sold in an auction at Russia. The garnet and gold decoration appears in some Migration Era Swords, notably in the Sutton Hoo sword, but the size of the whole guard doesn't match anything I know, while the pommel seems more of a 13-14th century thing. I suspect they just assembled a 14th-century blade with the pommel and forged the guard.



A "Merovingian" pattern welded blade dated 600 AD, sold in jan 2023. The auction description reads: "Size: L:1050mm / W:105mm ; 785g Provenance: Formerly in a collection of a European collector; previously in a Belgian collection of Mr. R. Bogaert, 1970s-1990s."
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/apollo-art/catalogue-id-pax-ro10040/lot-8f14b026-ba10-41d0-a4d0-af720089db90

While the hilt isn't as tall as the other, it's really too large and the blade decoration stands out from the Migration Era.

So, Byzantine swords are understudied compared to Western ones (and we have interesting hilt shapes like this, but as far as I'm aware there aren't much artistic evidence for bastard/two handed swords in Byzantine artistic evidence, besides some clear Western type blades.


https://sword-site.com/thread/922/hander-byzantine-sword?fbclid=IwAR3fl740v1eCJhE57FbcoUmuVdvtuoUSHsWIZf4rKOegzPoMmqKkertTXEk

It's also claimed to be Fatimid and Seljuk, sold at 2010. Jack Loomes said the blade is 65cm, which is shorter than Migration Era Swords, and likely a continuation of the shorter Roman Spathae in the Byzantine world. A reproduction of this piece has a total length of 82cm , but I don't think it's a good hilt repro, anyways.

I'm unsure if a Western-oriented datation is adequate for weapons like this. They gave 10th-11th century, probably because the guard is too long to predate the 950-1050 phenomenon of longer guards, while the blade is a sort of type X.


Extra (edit): apparently they found some byzantine swords in Amorium with the same hilt style of the first forgery:



https://greekcitytimes.com/2022/02/15/amorium-byzantine-greek-turkish/

The place also has a couple of interesting pieces as well: https://www.livescience.com/rare-byzantine-swords-discovered

I would really like to see a discussion about them.

[Sean Manning]

Pedro, I don't think Byzantine or early Islamic swords are understudied, there is just far less evidence for them than for swords of the Han Dynasty or swords of the Viking Age. Without hundreds or thousands of swords from known archaeological contexts, its hard to interpret things of unknown origin on random auctions (and hard to write the coffeetable books and children's books that get the public interested).

Objects from the former Soviet Union, like the sword in the Facebook post, are usually only published in Slavic languages. Some of those books and articles look really good but I can't read them!

I agree that we should be skeptical of swords appearing in auctions which can't be traced to a recorded find or an old collection.

[Pedro Paulo Gaião]

[Sean Manning]

I don't know, neither is my specialty. Look up the individual surviving swords (ie. swords with archaeological context or which have been in known collections for ~ a century) and see where they are published. But by definition, you can learn much more from ?thousands? of Viking swords from graves than from ?tens? of East Roman or early Islamic swords from less informative contexts.

I believe there are some East Roman sword hilts from the Serçe Limanı shipwreck.

[Sean Manning]

If the sword "Ex A.G. Collection" means "Axel Guttman" you will want to research how and where he got his objects. But as a rule of thumb, treat auction listings like a guy who grabs your jacket and wants to sell you something in a busy city center in tourist season.

[Sean Manning]

To pick an example I know better, there are hundreds of surviving Greek steel swords before 300 BCE (ancient Greeks and Macedonians sometimes deposited swords in graves or in temples which got burned). They are published and analyzed by Greek and German presses mostly in Greek and German so very few English speakers know where to find the details. Even books by ancient historians often overlook the books and articles with the typologies and measurements and line drawings and metallurgical analysis!

I think early Islamic and East Roman swords are rarer but also they are in museums in Syria and Turkey not England and Sweden. So the details are in academic journals and site reports, perhaps in French, Turkish, or Arabic, but not books in English for a mass market.

I wrote about ancient Greek steel swords in Ancient Warfare Magazine

Edit: here is a blog post about East Roman swords. Notice the focus on artwork (and Byzantine icon painting strongly stressed copying sacred models not reflecting the visible world). Academics might know of more surviving swords from clear archaeological contexts but probably not thousands of them like there are thousands of Viking Age swords. https://medievalswordmanship.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/the-types-of-byzantine-swords/

[Elnathan Barnett]

The first two might be just improperly reconstructed Hunnic/Steppe-type swords, with scabbard or sword-knot fittings placed as pommels. The long crossguards and long hilts found on such weapons: http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=197...nic+swords

I don't think that it is implausible that the crossguards and the rest of the fittings are original. Having said that, the way the blades taper, particularly the longer curve at the point, look more typical of Carolingian-era or later swords to me.

[Elnathan Barnett]

[Pedro Paulo Gaião]

[Sean Manning]

[Pedro Paulo Gaião]