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Neti S
Location: New Jersey Joined: 30 Mar 2019
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Fri 13 Mar, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: Early Sallets? |
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I have heard and seen some art depicting early sallets which distinctively have a visor shorter than the rest of the helmet like this piece from Outfit4Events, no clue if this one is accurate or not.i just want to know what time period would've had odd sallets like this and if there are any originals or other artwork depicting them
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Victor R.
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| Posted: Fri 13 Mar, 2020 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Considering visored sallets were often (nearly always?) worn with a bevor, this design wouldn't necessarily be an issue, so long as the bevor rose high enough to cover the chin/jaw, as they generally seemed to do (my repro does). As for timeframe, it would seem this style would fit with Germanic developmental trends in the mid-to-late XVth. As for searching for more depictions, I'd use "German" "visored sallet" and "XVth century" as my primary search terms.
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Neti S
Location: New Jersey Joined: 30 Mar 2019
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri 13 Mar, 2020 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Victor R. wrote: | | Considering visored sallets were often (nearly always?) worn with a bevor, this design wouldn't necessarily be an issue, so long as the bevor rose high enough to cover the chin/jaw, as they generally seemed to do (my repro does). As for timeframe, it would seem this style would fit with Germanic developmental trends in the mid-to-late XVth. As for searching for more depictions, I'd use "German" "visored sallet" and "XVth century" as my primary search terms. |
that is extremely helpful! but i know for a fact i have seen some kind of image on this very forum that talked about the same thing. i just need to find it.
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Fisher Lobdell
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| Posted: Tue 24 Mar, 2020 10:50 pm Post subject: Could it be my post from a while ago? |
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I posted a while ago about this early Italian salet i found on manuscriptminatures. Could this be it?
https://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=34418&highlight=
"Absence of evidence is not necessarily the evedence of Absence." Ewart Oakeshotte.
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James Arlen Gillaspie
Industry Professional
Location: upstate NY Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 587
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| Posted: Wed 25 Mar, 2020 9:03 am Post subject: |
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This short-visored look shows up in art for the entire time and just about every place sallets are used, yet we do not have a clear survival of such a helmet. There are a couple of things that seemed to challenge artists that they almost never got right, being how helms and helmets with visors looked when the visors were up, and how pauldrons looked when the arm is lifted. At this point, I believe that when it comes to this look, that we are seeing an artist's visual cliche that caught on early. Keep in mind that those artists frequently copied each other; it saves a lot of time getting a commission finished.
jamesarlen.com
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Neti S
Location: New Jersey Joined: 30 Mar 2019
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed 25 Mar, 2020 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| James Arlen Gillaspie wrote: | | This short-visored look shows up in art for the entire time and just about every place sallets are used, yet we do not have a clear survival of such a helmet. There are a couple of things that seemed to challenge artists that they almost never got right, being how helms and helmets with visors looked when the visors were up, and how pauldrons looked when the arm is lifted. At this point, I believe that when it comes to this look, that we are seeing an artist's visual cliche that caught on early. Keep in mind that those artists frequently copied each other; it saves a lot of time getting a commission finished. |
so it might just be artists interpretation of a raised visor? ive seen other reproductions where the jawbone visor thing is just shorter than the rest of the helm, like the one i posted above. this has to have come from somewhere because even in the odd artist interpretation it doesn't cover the face at all.
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Anthony Clipsom
Location: YORKSHIRE, UK Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Thu 26 Mar, 2020 5:38 am Post subject: |
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I think we shouldn't ignore the classical influences here. The period the helmet is from brought out various elements copied from Roman armours in Italy in particular. We might think of a Roman Attic style here, without the cheek pieces. Note the swept back crest too - a style seen in Late Roman art. Whether anyone ever wore such a helmet it is hard to say - it may be an artistic fantasy or even a portrayal of a visored bascinet given a classical make-over.
Anthony Clipsom
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This is a standard topic