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Neti S




Location: New Jersey
Joined: 30 Mar 2019

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri 13 Mar, 2020 1:45 pm    Post subject: Early Sallets?         Reply with quote

I have heard and seen some art depicting early sallets which distinctively have a visor shorter than the rest of the helmet like this piece from Outfit4Events, no clue if this one is accurate or not.i just want to know what time period would've had odd sallets like this and if there are any originals or other artwork depicting them


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Victor R.




Location: Klein, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 282

PostPosted: Fri 13 Mar, 2020 4:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Considering visored sallets were often (nearly always?) worn with a bevor, this design wouldn't necessarily be an issue, so long as the bevor rose high enough to cover the chin/jaw, as they generally seemed to do (my repro does). As for timeframe, it would seem this style would fit with Germanic developmental trends in the mid-to-late XVth. As for searching for more depictions, I'd use "German" "visored sallet" and "XVth century" as my primary search terms.
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Neti S




Location: New Jersey
Joined: 30 Mar 2019

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri 13 Mar, 2020 7:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Victor R. wrote:
Considering visored sallets were often (nearly always?) worn with a bevor, this design wouldn't necessarily be an issue, so long as the bevor rose high enough to cover the chin/jaw, as they generally seemed to do (my repro does). As for timeframe, it would seem this style would fit with Germanic developmental trends in the mid-to-late XVth. As for searching for more depictions, I'd use "German" "visored sallet" and "XVth century" as my primary search terms.

that is extremely helpful! but i know for a fact i have seen some kind of image on this very forum that talked about the same thing. i just need to find it.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
- John F. Kennedy
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Fisher Lobdell




Location: Kansas city
Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Reading list: 14 books

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Tue 24 Mar, 2020 10:50 pm    Post subject: Could it be my post from a while ago?         Reply with quote

I posted a while ago about this early Italian salet i found on manuscriptminatures. Could this be it?

https://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=34418&highlight=

"Absence of evidence is not necessarily the evedence of Absence." Ewart Oakeshotte.
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James Arlen Gillaspie
Industry Professional



Location: upstate NY
Joined: 10 Nov 2005

Posts: 560

PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar, 2020 9:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This short-visored look shows up in art for the entire time and just about every place sallets are used, yet we do not have a clear survival of such a helmet. There are a couple of things that seemed to challenge artists that they almost never got right, being how helms and helmets with visors looked when the visors were up, and how pauldrons looked when the arm is lifted. At this point, I believe that when it comes to this look, that we are seeing an artist's visual cliche that caught on early. Keep in mind that those artists frequently copied each other; it saves a lot of time getting a commission finished.
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Neti S




Location: New Jersey
Joined: 30 Mar 2019

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:
This short-visored look shows up in art for the entire time and just about every place sallets are used, yet we do not have a clear survival of such a helmet. There are a couple of things that seemed to challenge artists that they almost never got right, being how helms and helmets with visors looked when the visors were up, and how pauldrons looked when the arm is lifted. At this point, I believe that when it comes to this look, that we are seeing an artist's visual cliche that caught on early. Keep in mind that those artists frequently copied each other; it saves a lot of time getting a commission finished.

so it might just be artists interpretation of a raised visor? ive seen other reproductions where the jawbone visor thing is just shorter than the rest of the helm, like the one i posted above. this has to have come from somewhere because even in the odd artist interpretation it doesn't cover the face at all.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
- John F. Kennedy
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Anthony Clipsom




Location: YORKSHIRE, UK
Joined: 27 Jul 2009

Posts: 93

PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2020 5:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think we shouldn't ignore the classical influences here. The period the helmet is from brought out various elements copied from Roman armours in Italy in particular. We might think of a Roman Attic style here, without the cheek pieces. Note the swept back crest too - a style seen in Late Roman art. Whether anyone ever wore such a helmet it is hard to say - it may be an artistic fantasy or even a portrayal of a visored bascinet given a classical make-over.
Anthony Clipsom
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