Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Rondel Dagger Blade Types Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Toni Leivonen




Location: Finland
Joined: 20 Jul 2014

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 6:16 am    Post subject: Rondel Dagger Blade Types         Reply with quote

Do we have any idea about how common sharp bladed rondels were compared to ones that were just spikes?

What would the blades have been used for? Was it to help in combat or for all sort of utility work?
View user's profile Send private message
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Cincinnati, OH
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 21 pages
Reading list: 231 books

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 9,138

PostPosted: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Rondel Dagger Blade Types         Reply with quote

Toni Leivonen wrote:
Do we have any idea about how common sharp bladed rondels were compared to ones that were just spikes?

What would the blades have been used for? Was it to help in combat or for all sort of utility work?


I don't have hard numbers, but I've seen far more sharpened rondel daggers than ones with unsharpened spike-like blades. Of the common dagger forms, ballock daggers and baselards are depicted more often in civilian contexts than rondel or quillon daggers. So, I'd say rondel daggers are most likely to have a military use rather than a utility purpose. But you'll find exceptions to every rule.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 8:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was always under the impression that the 'spike' daggers were used to penetrate mail and the gaps in between plate armor. They wouldn't need to be cutting sharp for that. I'm sure that the sharpened single-edge types were certainly used for day to day life. AND......I could be wrong about all of that. Wouldn't be the first time... Laughing Out Loud .....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are cuts recorded in the rondel dagger treatises so sharp edged rondel daggers were common enough to have a martial art built around them. The use of the point is emphasized, though.
Historical fencing on Florida's Treasure Coast!
www.tcfencers.com
View user's profile Send private message
Alex Indman




Location: NYC
Joined: 13 Sep 2012

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Mon 28 Nov, 2016 6:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just IMHO - a true rondel (with typical big diameter rondels) would be plain inconvenient to use for any "sort of utility work", no matter what blade type...

Alex.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Mon 28 Nov, 2016 1:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex Indman wrote:
Just IMHO - a true rondel (with typical big diameter rondels) would be plain inconvenient to use for any "sort of utility work", no matter what blade type...

Alex.


This is quite true. Every person back in the day would have carried a common knife for eating and utility, and the rondel was a clear fighting weapon. There may have been superstitious feelings about using such a dagger for common tasks, and being such a specialized weapon that's hard to use in any other way would only emphasize this.
View user's profile Send private message
Toni Leivonen




Location: Finland
Joined: 20 Jul 2014

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2016 1:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Ruhala wrote:
There are cuts recorded in the rondel dagger treatises so sharp edged rondel daggers were common enough to have a martial art built around them. The use of the point is emphasized, though.


I'm quite interested in learning more of these dagger cuts, could you possibly give some examples?
View user's profile Send private message
Fisher Lobdell




Location: Kansas city
Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Reading list: 14 books

Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed 07 Dec, 2016 11:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I doubt there being superstitions about the use of different knives. WTF?! It just sounds ridiculous.
People didn't have a superstition for everything. Plus some (if not most) didn't believe stupid superstitions. But there are some crazy superstitions out there. Laughing Out Loud

1 Peter 5:8 - Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Absence of evidence is not necessarily the evedence of
Absence. Ewart Oakeshotte.
View user's profile Send private message
Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, UK
Joined: 12 Nov 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,572

PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec, 2016 12:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think the bottom line is that if you have tried to use a rondel for pretty much anything that is not martial it is almost useless, so yes you could use for other things, but the eating knife you also carry will likely be a better choice, or better still your friends bauernwehr or similar.

Tod

www.todsworkshop.com
www.todcutler.com
www.instagram.com/todsworkshop
www.facebook.com/TodTodeschini
www.youtube.com/user/todsstuff1
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If I am not mistaken, in German there is a term used specifically for daggers that are meant to pierce armour, and the term seems to be typically reserved for the so-called "spike" rondel: panzerstecher. Assuming I've used the term correctly, it might be useful to for the sake of clarity to distinguish between the two types by terming one the rondel (blades that can slice and stab) and the other the panzerstecher.

Edit: From my image search, it looks as though panzerstecher is a generic term in German for any sword or blade specialized for piercing armour, whether a rondel, estoc, the peculiar dueling swords from the Solothurner fechtbuch, or some other weapon. So maybe not the best term then.
View user's profile Send private message
Alan E




Location: UK
Joined: 21 Jan 2016

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec, 2016 4:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leo Todeschini wrote:
I think the bottom line is that if you have tried to use a rondel for pretty much anything that is not martial it is almost useless, so yes you could use for other things, but the eating knife you also carry will likely be a better choice, or better still your friends bauernwehr or similar.

Tod

Well I have one of your lovely rondels Tod and have found it excellent for carving larger lumps of meat! In the absence of a dedicated carving knife it is better for this than my eating knives because it is large enough (and wonderfully sharp Wink ).

Member of Exiles Medieval Martial Arts.
Currently teaching Fiore's art in Ceredigion
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Rondel Dagger Blade Types
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum