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Toni Leivonen
Location: Finland Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 16
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 Posted: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 6:16 am Post subject: Rondel Dagger Blade Types |
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Do we have any idea about how common sharp bladed rondels were compared to ones that were just spikes?
What would the blades have been used for? Was it to help in combat or for all sort of utility work?
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Rondel Dagger Blade Types |
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| Toni Leivonen wrote: | Do we have any idea about how common sharp bladed rondels were compared to ones that were just spikes?
What would the blades have been used for? Was it to help in combat or for all sort of utility work? |
I don't have hard numbers, but I've seen far more sharpened rondel daggers than ones with unsharpened spike-like blades. Of the common dagger forms, ballock daggers and baselards are depicted more often in civilian contexts than rondel or quillon daggers. So, I'd say rondel daggers are most likely to have a military use rather than a utility purpose. But you'll find exceptions to every rule.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Mark Moore
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| Posted: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I was always under the impression that the 'spike' daggers were used to penetrate mail and the gaps in between plate armor. They wouldn't need to be cutting sharp for that. I'm sure that the sharpened single-edge types were certainly used for day to day life. AND......I could be wrong about all of that. Wouldn't be the first time...  .....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Mike Ruhala
Location: Stuart, Florida Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Sat 26 Nov, 2016 11:16 am Post subject: |
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There are cuts recorded in the rondel dagger treatises so sharp edged rondel daggers were common enough to have a martial art built around them. The use of the point is emphasized, though.
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Alex Indman
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| Posted: Mon 28 Nov, 2016 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Just IMHO - a true rondel (with typical big diameter rondels) would be plain inconvenient to use for any "sort of utility work", no matter what blade type...
Alex.
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Jeffrey Faulk
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| Posted: Mon 28 Nov, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex Indman wrote: | Just IMHO - a true rondel (with typical big diameter rondels) would be plain inconvenient to use for any "sort of utility work", no matter what blade type...
Alex. |
This is quite true. Every person back in the day would have carried a common knife for eating and utility, and the rondel was a clear fighting weapon. There may have been superstitious feelings about using such a dagger for common tasks, and being such a specialized weapon that's hard to use in any other way would only emphasize this.
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Toni Leivonen
Location: Finland Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed 30 Nov, 2016 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Ruhala wrote: | | There are cuts recorded in the rondel dagger treatises so sharp edged rondel daggers were common enough to have a martial art built around them. The use of the point is emphasized, though. |
I'm quite interested in learning more of these dagger cuts, could you possibly give some examples?
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Fisher Lobdell
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| Posted: Wed 07 Dec, 2016 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt there being superstitions about the use of different knives.  It just sounds ridiculous.
People didn't have a superstition for everything. Plus some (if not most) didn't believe stupid superstitions. But there are some crazy superstitions out there.
"Absence of evidence is not necessarily the evedence of Absence." Ewart Oakeshotte.
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Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional
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Craig Peters
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| Posted: Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:39 am Post subject: |
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If I am not mistaken, in German there is a term used specifically for daggers that are meant to pierce armour, and the term seems to be typically reserved for the so-called "spike" rondel: panzerstecher. Assuming I've used the term correctly, it might be useful to for the sake of clarity to distinguish between the two types by terming one the rondel (blades that can slice and stab) and the other the panzerstecher.
Edit: From my image search, it looks as though panzerstecher is a generic term in German for any sword or blade specialized for piercing armour, whether a rondel, estoc, the peculiar dueling swords from the Solothurner fechtbuch, or some other weapon. So maybe not the best term then.
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Alan E
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| Posted: Thu 08 Dec, 2016 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Leo Todeschini wrote: | I think the bottom line is that if you have tried to use a rondel for pretty much anything that is not martial it is almost useless, so yes you could use for other things, but the eating knife you also carry will likely be a better choice, or better still your friends bauernwehr or similar.
Tod |
Well I have one of your lovely rondels Tod and have found it excellent for carving larger lumps of meat! In the absence of a dedicated carving knife it is better for this than my eating knives because it is large enough (and wonderfully sharp  ).
Member of Exiles Medieval Martial Arts.
Currently teaching Fiore's art in Ceredigion
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This is a standard topic