[Semih Koyuncu]

Hi all,

Below pictures are from Edirne (Adrianople) Military Museum. Just ignore the bows of them since museum authorities placed normal hand bow and in wrong direction. Could someone identify and date those? They seem like quite unique. I have never seen such crossbows before.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/s720x720/304986_4512678624881_1983273157_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/p480x480/946424_10201253640492892_1503741137_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/1044469_10201253727615070_1223963122_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/1011182_10201253730815150_1040468467_n.jpg

Thanks in advance.

[Robert MacPherson]

I have never seen anything like them either. The shape of the tillers (stocks) suggests the 19th century to me.

I will point some crossbow enthusiasts in this direction.

Mac

[Robert MacPherson]

Semih,

We have a bit of discussion going on about these bows here http://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/t1206-...bows#11291

Thanks for posting the pics!
Mac

[Jean Thibodeau]

Yes and some museum person assembled the prods on backwards, as mentioned by someone in the linked comment thread.

Does look very 19th century to me and mostly for some sort of sports target practice or maybe hunting ?

[Semih Koyuncu]

Robert MacPherson,

Thanks so much for your effort. I am already following that forum and topic too.

Now, it seems they are dated to 19th century as few others suggested. Pictures are belong to someone from archer group in Facebook and according to he the bows are have no relation with tillers.Even though he tried to warn museum authorities about direction of bows, they complained about lack of enough space in glass case. Apparently, museum personnel just put some ordinary bows on stocks without knowing they did it in wrong way. So while thinking about crossbows the bows should be dismissed.

Thanks again for answers.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Interesting nomenclature, since I've only heard "zamburak" being used for camel-mounted heavy muskets (or small swivel guns), although there's some interesting speculation that these weapons originated from earlier camel-mounted crossbows. I wonder if there's any etymological link with the Ottoman crossbows (which seem to be personal rather than crew-served weapons)?

(The closest I've found is an old dictionary entry: http://www.bibliomania.com/2/3/260/1293/20296/1/frameset.html )

[Semih Koyuncu]

While talking about weapons terminology could be very confusing but it is not the case here. Taybugha Al-Ashrafi Al-Baklamishi Al-Yunani in his The Complete Manual of Archery for Cadets written in 1368 mentions "zanburak" as a heavy type of crossbow which throws heavy bolts. Also, an earlier source Ibn Bibi in his memoirs covering between the years 1192 and 1280, while writing about Saljuk history mentions both "zanburak" and a lighter version "carh". So it is quite understandable for Ottomans to use Turcified version, "zemberek" for crossbows. One startling point is that in modern Turkish crossbow is called "Tartar bow". Although I tried hard to find when first appeared this nomenclature but failed to find something satisfying. Yet, I think it is result of modern Turkish language revolution.