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Scott Hrouda
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 Posted: Wed 21 Sep, 2011 8:13 am Post subject: Torse and Mantling on Bascinets? |
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I’m interested in finding historical depictions of torse and mantling on mid-fourteenth century bascinets in England / France. A substantial search of Manuscript Miniatures has not yielded results.
My goal is to spiff up my bascinet for the field and lists, and to do it correctly. I’m aware of many torse and mantling depictions on great helms and jousting helms, but images on bascinets seem to be very rare. Does anyone have images to share or a recommendation for further research?
Thank you in advance,
Scott
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Thu 22 Sep, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: |
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It is a "SCAdianism" to put torse and mantling on a 14thC bascinet. That stuff belongs on the helm, which has to go over the bascinet in that period.
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Scott Hrouda
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| Posted: Mon 26 Sep, 2011 10:26 am Post subject: |
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This was my fear. 
I'm still open to suggestions if anyone thinks there is even one historical depiction of a bascinet with torse and mantling. 
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Mon 26 Sep, 2011 11:45 am Post subject: |
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15thC grand bascinet... no problem.
Look Scott, its a 30+ year old SCAdianism... if you like it, put one on for SCA use. Take it off for LH demos. No biggie.
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Ian S LaSpina
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| Posted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Hrouda wrote: | This was my fear.
I'm still open to suggestions if anyone thinks there is even one historical depiction of a bascinet with torse and mantling. |
Here's the best I can do. I found this passage from Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight by David Edge and John Miles Paddock (ISBN 0-517-10319-2) while reading today.
| Quote: | | "From about 1300 the basinet was also decorated more or less elaborately, and contemporary accounts speak of gold, pearls and precious stones encrusting these. From this time we read of basinets being decorated by a roll of cloth or torse; this was often richly embellished and was commonly jewelled, as one can see on the monument of Thomas, eighth Lord Berkeley (d 1361) in Berkeley Church, Gloucestershire, and on the brass of Lord Willoughby d'Eresby (d c 1390) at Spilsby, Linconshire" (Edge and Paddock 83). |
I found some photos (not the best admittedly, but clearly have decoration on their bascinets) from this person's photostream on flickr.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52219527@N00/515...otostream/
John Willoughby, 3rd Baron Willoughby d'Eresby
Robert Willoughby, 4th Baron Willoughby d'Eresby
William Willoughby, 5th Baron Willoughby d'Eresby
Hope this helps some...
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest
"Monsters are dangerous, and just now Kings are dying like flies..."
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Not a torse, a chaplet there. Kind of a plaque belt for the bascinet. Close from a dozen yards but it doesn't interfere with wearing a helm. Padded torse - like ringss were added to bascinets as part of the suspension system but somehow they never seem to appear with a torse in effigies or illuminations. If they were common, as in SCA common.... why don't we find them? Seriously, I like the look & I tried to document it, as did others with better research skills than I.
Nada.
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Len Parker
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Wed 05 Oct, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Looks like a scarf or sash of cloth tied on the protagonist's helmets to draw the eye to them. Without knowing the context the illustration supports, I couldn't suggest why. It does not look like the padded donut and mini flag so commonly stuck on bascinets at SCAdian and re-enactment events.
Love the "face" shield on the tower protagonist. Awesome. 
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Len Parker
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| Posted: Wed 05 Oct, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: |
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I wasn't sure if these were torses or tokens. Scott said he wanted to spiff up his bascinet and I thought these might be something.
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Scott Hrouda
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| Posted: Tue 11 Oct, 2011 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Len Parker wrote: | | I wasn't sure if these were torses or tokens. Scott said he wanted to spiff up his bascinet and I thought these might be something. |
Thank you, I missed that during my search. I do belive it's something. Maybe a simple scarf would be more appropriate that a full torse and mantling.
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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This is a standard topic