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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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Posts: 244

PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 10:45 pm    Post subject: Pourpoint worn under jacks?         Reply with quote

I was wondering if pourpoints were worn under jacks for pointing the hose to? Since wearing a doublet underneath a jack would be a bit warm, but I'm not sure what else they would use to keep the hose up.
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Craig Wrenn




Location: Lincoln England
Joined: 07 Jan 2009

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 10:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I could be wrong, and I often am but do we know that a pourpoint was ever worn.
The consensus on other forums I go on seems to be that even though the pourpoints are worn throughout the re-enacting community, we only have two images of a sleeveless doublet to work from and they are of french farmers, not military people at all.

Like I say, I could be wrong and am quite happy to be proved wrong because then i can make one and wear it instead of my doublet.

Craig
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Chris Kelson





Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Reading list: 26 books

Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Pourpoint worn under jacks?         Reply with quote

Robert Hinds wrote:
I was wondering if pourpoints were worn under jacks for pointing the hose to? Since wearing a doublet underneath a jack would be a bit warm, but I'm not sure what else they would use to keep the hose up.


Pourpoint as a term I believe is pretty much interchangeable with doublet, and since it seems jacks were worn over regular clothing, then yes.

The main description we have of a sleeveless doublet (which I think is what you are referring to) is a very specific one from instructions along with construction of incredibly tough jacks, which seems to indicate that it was not a common item. I have one for wearing underneath a jack, but only then as I cannot provide evidence for it's use outside of the context of wearing under a thick jack until about the late 1480s when the images of miners and such appear. The common re-enactorism for keeping hose up otherwise is to tie the points to a belt, which pretty much never works entirely properly from what I've seen, and tends to leave the hose hanging loose and baggy.

I'd say it is better to have a sleeveless doublet on under a jack than to be melting or any other alternatives for keeping your hose up. That or don't keep your hose up, and roll them down if they're not joined. Just make sure everything stays in your breeches Razz

---Additionally---

Came across the idea that the 'petticoat' might be an alternative term/design for the same role, does anyone know more on this line of thought?
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

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PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i wear a pourpoint to hold up my hosen when i wear an arming coat under my jack. but thats only if i wear the metal arms etc. if not i just put my jack on over my doublet

(oh my jack is sleeveless btw)
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 244

PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2011 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for your input guys. Regardless of whether they were used in period in such a way I'm going to wear one anyway, since the doublet I want to get has puffed sleeves (wouldn't fit under my jack anyways) and because a normal doublet would be a bit warm in the summer sun...but then again a jack in the summer sun is going to be hot anyways. Eek!
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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