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Isaac H.
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 Posted: Mon 13 Dec, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject: Dawn Treader disapointment? |
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I don't know how many of my fellow sword geeks ended up sneaking out of the house to see The Voyage Of The Dawn Treader this last weekend,but I was one of them. Being a diehard fan of C.S. Lewis,I was a bit disapointed with the film.The silver lining,I suppose,is that swords do end up getting quite a bit of screen time.In fact,the whole movie is a sword seeking mission  For those of you experts that have seen the movie,what's your opinion on the "seven magical swords"? Are they purely fantasy blades ,or is there a historical example that they're based on?If nothing else,I thought they were good looking weapons.Perhaps a kid's movie about finding lost swords will get more of the next generation interested in our freakish hobby  
By the way,I thought it quite hilarious when Edmund cleans one of the swords by simply chipping away the intense corosion to reveal a perfect finish underneath!! I guess they really are magical swords..... 
Wounds of flesh a surgeons skill may heal...
But wounded honor is only cured with steel.
We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves.
Each of us should please his neighbor for his good ,to build him up.
Romans 15:1-2
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: Re: Dawn Treader disapointment? |
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| Isaac H. wrote: |
By the way,I thought it quite hilarious when Edmund cleans one of the swords by simply chipping away the intense corosion to reveal a perfect finish underneath!! I guess they really are magical swords..... |
What is the point of magical swords if they can't stay pristine under a heavy coat of rust ( Where the rust came from who knows since the blade shouldn't be able to rust or it was a much bigger sword that rusted with a second life as a small pristine sword inside the bigger one. ).
Oh, magical swords should have molecular edges capable of cutting in half marble columns with hardly any effort needed in the cut. Edges that never get dull or show damage ...... I want one. 
Magical Fantasy World: I can suspend disbelief in such a case, less so if it's supposed to be a Historically Accurate movie.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Ryan J. Kadwell
Location: Queensland, Australia Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 2:14 am Post subject: |
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I used to roleplay in a post-by-post site, where contributors would basically tell a story from their character's perspective, and the ye olde magickal sword would always rear it's ugly head from time to time, and is usually reared by promising new players.
The thing that always struck me were the frequency of traits that made the sword magical, and the equal frequency that the newcomers would quickly adopt a different style when they realised an essential truth: magical swords are boring.
So, one magical attribute of course, was the sword that never rusted, went dull, basically didn't need any upkeep. A.k.a boring, and some good fellow writers of mine could change their minds with some brilliant dialogue scenes around a campfire between soldiers as they diligently see to their weapons. It brought a realism to it, a sort of intimacy, that the budding roleplayers missed out on with their permanently honed weapons.
Another favourite trait was the epic strength and cutting power of it, usually inadequately explained away by the steel being of 'unimaginable hardness', which sometimes had other players suggest it must be awful having a sword that shatters all the time. Notwithstanding, another good player demonstrated how much more dramatic a struggle it is for a mortal to fight with his blade, and either invariably or not have his sword fail (or not) in the heat of battle.
In the end, we managed to develop a bit of a mantra which went along the lines of 'magical swords are boring, and failure is very interesting'.
My two cents 
Geoffrey: You fool! As if it matters how a man falls down!
Richard: When the fall’s all that’s left, it matters a great deal.
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Taylor Ellis
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 2:26 am Post subject: |
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My favourite magic sword that I've ever read about is Conan's in Pheonix on the Sword. Just a plain normal sword (not even great quality going by its performance), but can kill what other, better weapons can't.
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Hey! Glamdring was magical and it was awesome!!
Eol's sword Gurthang could freaking talk! Also awesome!!
Feanor's spear Ringil was cool too. Was it Feanor? Can't keep my Silmarilion straight. . .
Anyway magic weapons from Tolkien are ALL awsome!!
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Isaac H.
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Of course all the weapons from Tolkien are awesome.J.R.R Tolkien was one of the absolute best fantasy writers of all time!!! But we must take into consideration that the magical swords in new Dawn Treader were not created by C.S. Lewis (also a fanatically awesome writer) ,but were added into the movie for some unknown reason.I was PERFECTLY HAPPY with the original plot,but we all know how directors enjoy twisting plots...
Wounds of flesh a surgeons skill may heal...
But wounded honor is only cured with steel.
We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves.
Each of us should please his neighbor for his good ,to build him up.
Romans 15:1-2
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Re: Sword Rust Removal
Remember in the first Conan movie when Arnold finds Crom's sword all covered in clumps of rust in a cave, and then this stuff falls off with a few bangs to reveal a deadly sharp Jody Samson sword beneath...so you see, there is authentic historical precident for this sort of thing. Naturally it wouldn't work for swords made for ordinary mortals like us, but that goes without saying. Also, humidity and oxidation vary consderably between Naria, Hyboria, and reality, so its hard to compare.
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Victor R.
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: Rust? What rust! |
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No, no, no. You're getting it all wrong!
It isn't rust, but a protecetive coating of red clay put on over a perfectly sharpened, oiled blade prior to storage. The clay drew away any nasty moisture and kept it away from the blade, while the oil created a barrier against any residual moisture in the clay, which, as we all know, was baked onto the blade like a scabbard. Upon finding the fabled sword, the hero knows that all that needs be done is to give it a good whack and it's ready for action!
Geez! Rust. On a magic sword. C'mon people, be realistic!
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William Knight
Location: Mid atlantic, US Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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I will confess I haven't seen any of the new Narnia movies after the first one. Frankly I don't think the Narnia books benefit from the Peter-Jackson style CGI epic treatment. That style of movie worked well for LOTR (generally) but the Narnia books are much more personal and fairy-tale like. I don't know who could do a good movie of them.
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Christopher Lee
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| William Knight wrote: | | I will confess I haven't seen any of the new Narnia movies after the first one. Frankly I don't think the Narnia books benefit from the Peter-Jackson style CGI epic treatment. That style of movie worked well for LOTR (generally) but the Narnia books are much more personal and fairy-tale like. I don't know who could do a good movie of them. |
Have to agree that Peter Jackson's approach is doing no favours to the original feel of the Narnia books. Nice special effects, shame about the rest of it. But i have to say that i thought his treatment of LOTR was just shameful; adding in ridiculous episodes that weren't in the books at the expense of some really crucial parts of the story that never made it on to film. The stupid scenes of Legolas performing gymnastics on a giant elephant were just abominable.
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Eric Allen
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Having seen the movie, I'm pretty certain the sword wasn't covered in corrosion, but just encrusted with marine crud. After all, the old geezer who gave it to them implied it had been buried, and the coating was 1) coating the sword, not integral to the sword (hence Ed chipping it away) and 2) greyish-yellow in color, not red.
As far as the movie went, I was underwhelmed, but mostly for the same reasons I was underwhelmed with the book.
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Taylor Ellis
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Christopher Lee wrote: | | William Knight wrote: | | I will confess I haven't seen any of the new Narnia movies after the first one. Frankly I don't think the Narnia books benefit from the Peter-Jackson style CGI epic treatment. That style of movie worked well for LOTR (generally) but the Narnia books are much more personal and fairy-tale like. I don't know who could do a good movie of them. |
Have to agree that Peter Jackson's approach is doing no favours to the original feel of the Narnia books. Nice special effects, shame about the rest of it. But i have to say that i thought his treatment of LOTR was just shameful; adding in ridiculous episodes that weren't in the books at the expense of some really crucial parts of the story that never made it on to film. The stupid scenes of Legolas performing gymnastics on a giant elephant were just abominable. |
I thought you were pretty good as Saruman though.
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Daniel Staberg
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Odd to blame Peter Jackson for the supposed faults in a movie he has no connection with at all. He certainly is not listed as part of the cast & crew online for example
"There is nothing more hazardous than to venture a battle. One can lose it
by a thousand unforseen circumstances, even when one has thorougly taken all
precautions that the most perfect military skill allows for."
-Fieldmarshal Lennart Torstensson.
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Isaac H.
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Have to echo what Daniel said here,Peter Jackson STYLE does not mean that Mr. Jackson himself was involved in any way ,shape ,or form with this movie.It was just a comparision.
Eric Allen wrote : "the old geezer that gave it to them implied that it had been buried...." I recall the old guy saying something about "saving the sword for them" Seriosly,who in their right mind saves a sword by burying it ??!!  We here all know that there's few worse things for a sword to endure than a good while in the ground(especially in a salty,wet enviroment) Perhaps he needed some proffessional help...
Wounds of flesh a surgeons skill may heal...
But wounded honor is only cured with steel.
We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves.
Each of us should please his neighbor for his good ,to build him up.
Romans 15:1-2
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Connor Ruebusch
Location: Cincinnati Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2010 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I read the ancient Iberians used to bury iron plates in order to corrode the weakest parts of the metal away, leaving them with only the strongest iron for forging. Clearly the old fellow buried a sword of very poor quality, and then, years later, dug up the much improved blade, consisting of only the finest steel.
Ex animo,
Connor
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 12:48 am Post subject: |
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The place is inhabited by talking critters of all sorts, wizards, witches and such, yet you guys are obssessing over swords that don't rust?
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: |
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I just want to see Gurthang in a film- with a mouth set into the guard. . .
"HEY!! What you lookin' at?!? Never seen a talkin' sword before!!"
Then there's Huor the talking dog. . . but I guess that's a whole nother' matter. . .
Only Tolkien can pull off such things and have them not be laughable. . . .
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Matt Corbin
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | The place is inhabited by talking critters of all sorts, wizards, witches and such, yet you guys are obssessing over swords that don't rust? |
Thank you!!!
“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Matt Corbin wrote: | | Patrick Kelly wrote: | | The place is inhabited by talking critters of all sorts, wizards, witches and such, yet you guys are obssessing over swords that don't rust? |
Thank you!!! |
By the way in case it wasn't obvious my comment post near the top of this Topic was written with tongue solidly in cheek.
I really didn't or don't expect people to discuss magic swords seriously considering the wizards, witches, talking mice with swords etc ....... ( Sounds like a super nerd discussion one would hear on " THE BIG BANG THEORY " T.V. show where the super intelligent Sheldon tries to explain how the Flash can run faster than light ..... ).
( Oh, and Patrick I didn't think your comments where addressed at me. )
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Anders Backlund
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Wait, there are seven magical swords in Dawn Treader now?
Great, now I have to see that movie. 
| Ryan J. Kadwell wrote: | I used to roleplay in a post-by-post site, where contributors would basically tell a story from their character's perspective, and the ye olde magickal sword would always rear it's ugly head from time to time, and is usually reared by promising new players.
The thing that always struck me were the frequency of traits that made the sword magical, and the equal frequency that the newcomers would quickly adopt a different style when they realised an essential truth: magical swords are boring.
So, one magical attribute of course, was the sword that never rusted, went dull, basically didn't need any upkeep. A.k.a boring, and some good fellow writers of mine could change their minds with some brilliant dialogue scenes around a campfire between soldiers as they diligently see to their weapons. It brought a realism to it, a sort of intimacy, that the budding roleplayers missed out on with their permanently honed weapons.
Another favourite trait was the epic strength and cutting power of it, usually inadequately explained away by the steel being of 'unimaginable hardness', which sometimes had other players suggest it must be awful having a sword that shatters all the time. Notwithstanding, another good player demonstrated how much more dramatic a struggle it is for a mortal to fight with his blade, and either invariably or not have his sword fail (or not) in the heat of battle.
In the end, we managed to develop a bit of a mantra which went along the lines of 'magical swords are boring, and failure is very interesting'.
My two cents |
Heh, it's kinda funny; I'm running a play-by-post RPG right now and I went with the complete opposite approach - rather then have the PC start out with normal weapons and work their way up the normal way, I started off giving them the best weapons its possible to have in the game: These shapeshifting, functionally indestructible, ludicrously sharp/damaging artifacts from a long gone age. Though, they technically aren't "magical", rather their supernatural traits are inherent in the material they are made from.There are magical swords in the setting that function and behave somewhat differently. (Ironically, they are less durable then the super-weapons I gave the players, and require occasional "charging.")
Granted, these artifact weapons are actually part of the storyline and most of the important NPC (including all the villains) have one as well. I like to compare them to Star Wars lightsabers, in that they are signature weapons. I've always been fascinated by that particular dramatic device - a weapon that isn't just special in itself, but clearly signifies that the wielder is a special kind of person.
As for boring, I'd argue that there are limited ways of making maintainace actually interesting in a campaign set to last at least a year, and if my players will rather discuss sword cleaning tips then whatever is currently going on in the storyline, then I'm clearly doing something very wrong. Besides, my game is already far too dialogue heavy.
You may have a point about the potential of failure, but... well, let's just say that with the monstrously formidable villains I've prepared for my party, they need all the help they can possibly get. I said that only special people carry these weapons, but the players are pretty much the least special of all the special people in the game. At this point, having them rely on plain normal weapons would quickly go from "interesting" to "plain mean."
All in all, I think we can chalk this down to a differance in taste and different writing style. I certainly wouldnt say either approach is more "true" then the other, anyway.
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.
"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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