Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Show Us Your Staff Weapons Reply to topic
This is a Spotlight Topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next 
Author Message
David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 775

PostPosted: Thu 05 May, 2011 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Okay, axe time....
1. A&A Nordland bearded axe, Gransfors Bruks battle axe, A&A type L viking axe, and Hanwei Viking hand axe.
2. Huh, there's the Hanwei axe again. Anyway -- A&ACZ (now Kasto) Francisca, Unknown maker francisca (purchased from Jas. Townsend), MRL/Windlass Assyrian bronze axe.



 Attachment: 94.09 KB
2010-01-27 14-25-22_0006 A1.jpg


 Attachment: 94.07 KB
2010-01-30 11-32-07_0021 A1.jpg


David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Robert S. Haile





Joined: 16 Dec 2007

Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri 06 May, 2011 7:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a GDFB pollaxe head I mounted recently. I cut the ash haft down from a piece of lumber using a table saw and some good guestimation skills. I decided to forgo the extensive linseed oil treatment and used a little stain and beeswax on the haft instead. The langlets were attached using a few mild steel pins, which I heated and peened over on either side. Not too terrible a turn out for a first try, and even though it's not quite as pretty as something A&A would've turned out, it's very stout and not too ugly.

The good folks over at Hanwei made things a tad harder by drilling entirely uneven holes in the langlets...but despite all the toil, I'm pretty happy with the finished product.

View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Fri 06 May, 2011 8:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice job Robert. Happy Did you have much grinding to do on the socket welds?

Through my experience and the great projects many others have shared here, I have come to believe that purchasing a cheap polearm head and mounting it yourself is a really good way for a beginner to get started. Then it's all down hill from there... Wink

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
View user's profile Send private message
Robert S. Haile





Joined: 16 Dec 2007

Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri 06 May, 2011 3:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Scott! I actually used your old hafting thread for reference before I set to doing this. To answer your question, yes. There was a ton of grinding to do on the whole piece, especially in between the two lames, where they had been welded to the head. I could only take them so far down with the tools at hand, so I ended up doing some eyeballing and shaping of the haft itself to conform to the odd shape inside the socket. Luckily it all worked out in the end.

I originally wanted to get a similar pollaxe or bec de corbin from arms and armor, but since I commissioned a new period appropriate atrim longsword by Valiant Armoury it well emptied my pockets. I still need hourglass gauntlets and a reworked breastplate on top of that too...So I've got a way to go. Cool
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Hal Siegel
Industry Professional



Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 30 Aug 2003

Posts: 113

PostPosted: Wed 11 May, 2011 12:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote



Cold Steel halberd project I finished last year - horrible factory black gunk finish stripped, head mounted on stained shaft.

Hal Siegel - TherionArms
http://www.therionarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/TherionArms
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Mon 30 May, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote



GDFB poleaxe, MRL Bill, Lutel Bec de Corbin
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Bob Burgess




Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: 30 May 2011

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun 05 Jun, 2011 8:51 am    Post subject: 45 degree spike         Reply with quote

I notice on the bec de corbin in the last post the spike is turned through 45 degreees, a feature also seen on Roman axes (construction tools) from Newstead Fort in Scotland, boarding pikes and modern fireman's axes.... I hadn't given it much thought, but it would seem that it would be easier to extract from armour or wood than one not turned diagonally...

Has anyone experimented with this, or do members of the forum have any thoughts on the subject????

My query started with a tool or weapon (still trying to determine exactly what it is) discovered during an archeological dig in Quebec Canada - http://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/t2783-Aider-l-archeologie.htm



 Attachment: 23.86 KB
hache-tomahak-restaur-e_1-28eef88.jpg
After cleaning and conservation

Edge tool collector and historian, with a special interest in the billhook...
View user's profile Send private message
M. Livermore





Joined: 20 Aug 2008

Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sun 05 Jun, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My experimentation with axes shaped similarly to the one you have shown suggests that you are correct. The motion of the arm when striking and recovering from a strike tends to cause the held implement to describe a circle or portion thereof. Turned spikes are much easier to extract for that reason, at least in my experience.
View user's profile Send private message
Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Likes: 16 pages

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun, 2011 2:01 am    Post subject: Re: 45 degree spike         Reply with quote

Bob Burgess wrote:

My query started with a tool or weapon (still trying to determine exactly what it is) discovered during an archeological dig in Quebec Canada - http://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/t2783-Aider-l-archeologie.htm


This is both tool & weapon. Although similar to the Spanish 17th c. issue boarding axe this is probably a spike tomahawk. Similar one can bee seen in Hartzler & Knowles, Indian Tomahawks & Frontiersmen Belt Axes, p.42 fig.13.

Here are several of my staff weapons, all are antique and munition grade, not to say peasant. For comparison, the blade length of the voulge (longest arm on top) is 60cm (appr. 2').



 Attachment: 222.09 KB
Picture1.jpg


Curator of Beit Ussishkin, regional nature & history museum, Upper Galilee.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ed Toton




Location: Northern VA
Joined: 16 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 462

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unfortunately I don't really have any good pictures of my polearms.

But here's my custom A&A glaive (next to the A&A Henry V):



A&A Hungarian Axe:



And a really ancient picture of some of my other long pointies:


(left to right: CAS-Iberia Sparth Axe, a cheap display-only halberd, CAS Iberia lugged spear, very cheap sickle-spear I picked up at some renfaire somewhere)

-Ed T. Toton III
ed.toton.org | ModernChivalry.org
My armor photos on facebook
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Felix R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Reading list: 25 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 2:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Today I finally got my Poleaxe made by Manfred Pany. The idea was to make it late 14th early 15th cent. There seem to be no surviving pieces from that time. But we included sources from artwork and features from the later surviving examples. The idea was to mae it more simple and less decorated than gothic pieces. And have it sqare instead of diamond shaped (standing on the edge). Here are some sources, pictures will be added during the day.


 Attachment: 65.78 KB
Trebonsky_oltar_ukrizovani.jpg


 Attachment: 72.69 KB
Fontenoy_en_puisaye.jpg


 Attachment: 93.35 KB
Images_Online_083702.jpg


 Attachment: 41.22 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Felix R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Reading list: 25 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 3:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are the pictures, the post is app. 1.85m in height.

There is also a buttspike, which is not so sharp, but more harassing than a square end.



 Attachment: 164.62 KB
IMG_9096.JPG


 Attachment: 86.67 KB
IMG_9097.JPG


 Attachment: 80.4 KB
IMG_9099.JPG


 Attachment: 72.82 KB
IMG_9101.JPG


 Attachment: 93.16 KB
IMG_9092.JPG

View user's profile Send private message
Bartek Strojek




Location: Poland
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Likes: 23 pages

Posts: 452

PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 6:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice piece!

Lack of surviving originals is certainly disheartening, so far we're doomed to do educated guesses.

But I like this interpretation a lot.
View user's profile Send private message
Ralph Grinly





Joined: 19 Jan 2011

Posts: 323

PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That looks very nice . Have you given it a work-out yet ? I'm curious about the rear 'beak". If used against armour, and that penetrated the metal - I'm thinking that the leverage on a shaft that long would snap the shaft before the beak could be levered out of the hole it made on penetration ??. To me..it seems you'd have to shift your grip much closer to the head to pull it out ?
View user's profile Send private message
Felix R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Reading list: 25 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Wed 03 Aug, 2011 4:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don´t think that the beak is meant to pierce armour, so no need to lever it out of the punched hole. On the other hand the whole piece is slightly longer than my personal height, which goes well with the dimensions shown in fencing manuscripts. You won´t hold it at end tho swing it around anyway.
View user's profile Send private message
Bob Burgess




Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: 30 May 2011

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun 07 Aug, 2011 12:55 am    Post subject: Weapons or tools??         Reply with quote

Hi
Whilst the objects in Sa'ar Nudel's picture would make formidable weapons, I would say that their principal function is peaceful, and that they are all agricultural or vineyard tools. Further all appear to be French in origin, and I would guess the makers marks will show them to be 19th century, or even possible 20th century in origin... The style of these tools has remained unchanged through the centuries, and they were most probably the precursors of many type of pole arm. As mentioned on several other posts on this forum, not all armies were of trained soldiers, many peasants were pressed into service and had to take whatever weapoin they could find, or that they could make from their everyday tools c.f. the blade of a humble billhook having a spike or hook attached, fitted to a long pole and thus becomong a bill...

Numbering from the top: 1 and 3 are coupe-marcs, used in the cider and vine making regions of France to cut up the marc, or residue after the juice has been pressed out of the fruit. Each region of France has its own individual shape, and these are from the north west of France, around Normandy. 2 and 5 are probably coupe- près, used to open up drainage channels in grass lands, especially in regions that have (had??) water meadows - they may also be coupe- marcs, or possibly on poorer farms an old and worn coupe marc would become the coupe-prè.

4 is a croissant, in UK Englsih a slasher or staff hook, i.e. a hedging billhook on a long handle...

6 is a bit of a mystery, but my best guess would be an old no 5, with most of the blade worn or ground away....

For further reading I would recommend the books of Daniel Boucard, published in France by Jean Cyrille Godefroy: http://jean-cyrille-godefroy.izibookstore.com...%20Boucard

Or look at the French Old Tools website: http://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/f6-Identification-d-outils.htm

e.g.:

http://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/t2510-Outil-ou...htm?q=arme
http://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/t2664-Coupe-ma...coupe+marc
http://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/t2509-pour-le-...coupe+marc

Edge tool collector and historian, with a special interest in the billhook...
View user's profile Send private message
Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Sun 07 Aug, 2011 2:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob,

That's a great French website/forum you linked to - it warrants lots more investigation!

It does throw up the question of how many of these old tools end up in the States being sold as 'medieval weapons' by unscrupulous vendors to unknowing customers.......

Julian
View user's profile Send private message
Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 678

PostPosted: Sun 07 Aug, 2011 4:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So, in order to get tools like that, I'd have to open up a vineyard?
Wine and revolts; I like the sound of that!

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
View user's profile Send private message
Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Likes: 16 pages

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sun 07 Aug, 2011 4:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Julian Reynolds wrote:
Bob,

It does throw up the question of how many of these old tools end up in the States being sold as 'medieval weapons' by unscrupulous vendors to unknowing customers.......

Julian


So true. I had several "affairs" with sellers on ebay, some of them highly respectable (or so they seem), trying to explain such things. The common mistake is to post a decorated goosewing side-axe as an "executioner's axe". Bob of course is correct with his identification, I just argue the age of #1 which is to my best knowledge very old - hammer marks all over and forge welded joints with loss of material and deep patina. Although industrialized tools were introduced to the market from about 1860, rural France still employed blacksmiths well into the 20th century. #5 is known also as turff axe, but with a blade over 1' long weighing 4-1/2 pounds on a 4' haft it makes a great weapon for hacking, stabbing and grappling. It is very well made with obvious forge-welded seams. #6 is a cut-down version.
I have an additional bi-socketed coup-marc (not on the photo) with a blade cut from a sheet steel, nicely marked, and the two sockets are cast steel and riveted to the blade.
Boucard's books are great, I have them and also a few axes from his collection.

Curator of Beit Ussishkin, regional nature & history museum, Upper Galilee.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bob Burgess




Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: 30 May 2011

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun 07 Aug, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One of the problems is that these tools are virtually unknown in the English speaking world. Secondly they are virtually unchanged in shape since the Middle Ages or even earlier. Thirdly French edge tool makers (taillandiers) continued forge welding of tools in small rural forges well into the 20th century. The situation was similar in other European countries. A 1960's survey of the Balkans undertaken by a French university discovered medieval tools and technology in everday use..

Les outils dans les Balkans du Moyen Age à nos jours. Coffret 2 volumes - Giustina Ostuni - 1986 - EHESS

(EHESS = L'école de haute études en sciences sociales - Paris - Department of Ethonolgie et Anthropologie)

Bernard Solon, Maison Alexis in Orléans (France), although well into his 70's, and in semi-retirement, still forge welds the blades of his vineyard hoes, incorporating a thin layer of harder, wear resistant high carbon steel into the medium carbon steel blade. As the softer steel wears away it exposes the harder core, making them self sharpening... His grandfather, who founded the forge, taught him this method, so it was still being practised after WW11....

I have the names of over 4000 french taillandiers who worked from about 1830 to 1940, and these are only the ones who had bought an entry into the year books - I have many more tools by unrecorded makers...

With regard to sellers offering tools from Europe in the USA as weapons, I have seen many instances - it is not only bearded axes (goosewing) that are sold as executioners' axes, but also the axe shaped coupe-marc from the Burgundy region of France. I also saw a late 19th early 20th century German billhook that I had bid on on ebay.de in 2008 being sold in the USA 2009 as an 18th century Pensylvania Dutch made tool - in the intervening year it had also acquired a Certificate of Authenticity. The seller had the decency to admit he had been fooled when I showed him the ebay images I copied in 2008 - it was identical right down to the scratch marks on the handle.... It just had the maker's initials on the blade, and a half dozen touch marks....

Museums are equally bad in getting their facts wrong, see the link 'Outil ou Arme' in my previous post... One of my aims is to try and correct these errors before they become 'gospel' because some 'expert' has written a book citing an error. For my part, if I am wrong I am happy to admit my mistake... please feel free to shoot me down...



 Attachment: 66.09 KB
A bill hook from Sicily - 20th century - no maker's name, but blade covered in touch marks (found in the USA) [ Download ]

 Attachment: 109.49 KB
Close up of touch mark [ Download ]

Edge tool collector and historian, with a special interest in the billhook...
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Show Us Your Staff Weapons
Page 3 of 5 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2019 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum