[Gene Green]

I visited a friend of mine, and he happened to rent a DVD with 2000 made-for-TV "Jason and the Argonauts" film (his son is into ancient Greek myths). Anyway, the movie itself is nothing to talk about, but I was somewhat surprised by the depiction of argonauts' armor and weapons. I am by no means an expert on ancient Greeks, but most of it seemed surprisingly accurate, at least to me - more than what I usually see on TV. This was especially noticeable in contrast with film itself being rather cheesy (in my opinion, anyway).

Some things that I liked:

- Most helmets did not have crests on them. I think I only saw 2 helmets with crests, one was on the king who killed Jason's father (this crest was set across the helmet, like the one on the statue of a spartan officer). Another one looked somewhat odd, it was tall and not wide (like capital U turned upside down) and it looked like it was made of same metal as helmet. The rest of helmets were unadorned, mostly Corinthian but some open-faced (almost a scull cap). They were not shiny either, and did look like bronze or copper. It looked, to me, fairly close to what typical greek warriors would wear (maybe in a different time).

- The shields looked just the right size, covering roughly from top of the neck to top of thigh. In most other movies I've seen the shields were a bit too small.

- The spears were also just the right size, not the long ones you see in many movies, but about a foot or two above soldier's head. This I think is how they are often depicted on Greek vases.

- The swords looked right (leaf shaped straight swords and, at least in one scene, a kopis). In a scene where they flee from garpias, one can see the swords hanging from their left back side, below the armpit - is this how they were usually worn ?

All in all I thought it was better researched than most other "ancient" films, esp. from 50s - 60s.

There were some strange goofs, though - in scenes just before the voyage, Jason is wearing a tunic, with bare legs; but during the voyage, he's dressed _in pants_ - actually, tights - under the tunic. Very strange, especially since all other argonauts were barelegged (didn't greeks consider pants to be barbaric dress, unfit for civilized people ?)

(BTW, the weapons looked alright only so far as the greeks are concerned, once they got to Kolchida (sp?) all bets were off and there were some weird-looking fantasy helmets).

Anyway, I was wondering if somebody else could comment on historical accuracy of weapons in this movie.

[Matthew Amt]

I remember seeing that a few years ago, but unfortunately--or maybe luckily!--most of the details have faded from my mind. I probably missed a few bits while trying to gnaw my own leg off...

It's probably safe to assume that none of the armor or weaponry bore any relation to anything actually used in the Bronze Age. I would have remembered that! For instance, in the much older (and more horrible) version of Jason and the Argonauts, there were a couple excellent Type G swords in one scene, and the warriors of Colchis actually have some Hittite-looking shields and gear. You can get a better idea of what would have been used from my own little website,

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/bronze.html

Also from the Bronze Age Center,

http://s8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_Center/index.php?

All the bronze should shine, and probably most of the wood and leather would have been brightly painted. Hollywood has this bizarre obsession with black/gray/brown armor, one of my all-time pet peeves. Crests were common, made of black or white horsehair, though Homer mentions purple crests a couple times. Corinthian helmets and other items from the Archaic and Classical eras are all anachronisms.

It would be REALLY COOL to get a few Argonauts together sometime! We could even arrange to borrow the local Viking ship for our Argo. All we'd need is a big guy in a black leather jacket and a hockey mask with a big bronze knife to be "Jason", bwa ha ha....

Khaire,

Matthew

[Gene Green]

[Matthew Amt]

[Lafayette C Curtis]

[Bob Burns]

This is one of the movies in my sword DVD library and I am not all that impressed with it either but for the most part if it's a halfway decent sword movie, I've got it. Seems I just cannot get too much of swords and everything to do with them.

Bob

[Gene Green]

[Matthew Amt]

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Well, we should also look for sources beyond historical artworks. I think I recall a Greek poet mentioning that the ideal of fighting was to get shield-to-shield and bow the head down so that the crest of the warrior's helmet is entangled with that of the enemy. Strictly speaking, though, the poet came from slightly before the Classical Age proper, so we don't know how well his poem would have applied to the hoplites' fighting techniques and tactics.

The evidence for the Napoleonic period is less equivocal, since we have many examples of soldiers' diaries and memoirs mentioning that the enemy wore things like polished white gloves that would have been out of place in any condition of dress less formal than parade dress, whether half or full. Of course, this only happened in major pitched battles where at least one side had adequate time to change and it is certainly correct that soldiers largely wore drabber fatigues, surtouts, and the like on the march and when fighting in unexpected skirmishes.