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Mike Arledge




Location: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 434

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject: Small Review with photos: Albion Thegn         Reply with quote

Stats:

Weight: 2 lbs 1.5 ounces
Overall Length: 34 and 1/2 inches
Grip: 3 and 1/2 inches
Blade Length: 29 inches from guard
Point of Balance: approx. 5 inches from guard
Center or Percussion: approx. 20 inches from guard
Distal Taper
At Crossguard -.40 cm
At COP - .30 cm

Initial Impressions:
Is this a sword worth the $900 price tag? It just might be…

Appearance:
The Thegn is one of those Albion Next Gen models along with the Prince and Sovereign that I have told myself I would buy first if I had a lot of money to spare. I have always has a soft spot for the Type L Viking swords, whether you call this design a purely Anglo-Saxon model or not. The pommel is a unique shape any way you look at it. I also like the riser in the middle of the grip. The blade is another rarity amongst Viking reproductions, which tend to reach towards the longest of the Viking blades. Photos don’t always prepare you for how unique and beefy this shorter blade it. In actuality it has a lot less profile taper than you might expect. The finish on the blade is excellent. The pommel has a few pits and finishing mistakes, but the inset wire is a nice touch. For the money, I am pleased with all of the appearance elements.

Handling:
While it took a while to convince myself that the Thegn was worth the $900 investment on appearance alone, its handling left no doubts that Albion pulled this one off just right. While the stats might speak to a more blade heavy sword, that is not the case. There is almost no blade presence to this design, at least compared to most Viking models I have handled. This is genuinely a fast handling Viking sword, but one that has plenty of power and mass where it counts. When I first read some reviews and comments on it, especially those on the Albion page, I was half expecting a Viking sword “in miniature”, but this is not the case. This is its own sword, with its own handling that places it closer to a Medieval sword in terms of handling, but its clearly placed in the Viking age of swords. Its pretty cool.

What you should expect:
This sword costs $910 direct from Albion, I got mine from kultofathena for $885 shipped. For me this is a steep investment, and in fact I sold 3 of my swords and my old camera to finance it. I was ready to really focus my collection into the Viking Age. I was prepared if need be to send this back if I wasn’t 100% satisfied with it given the high cost. I really mulled it over for a few days before sitting down to write this. When I compare it in my mind to the other recent Albion Squireline models, its hard to think of telling comparisons to explain why I think the extra $400 spent on this sword is worth it. One thing you get from buying the Thegn, Huskarl or Jarl is a more accurate pommel construction, which was important to me given my further study into Viking swords. I don’t know if type L hilts consisted of two piece pommels or not, but from the type L’s I have seen from Peirce, there are no obvious rivet blocks like on other pommel types of two piece construction. I feel I was a tough customer on this sword, tougher than I have been on $400-$600 models. But I feel you are getting a better, more accurate product with a Next Gen Viking purchase from Albion. Not everyone can invest $900-$1200 in these models, and it is hard to express or understand what drives up the cost of these blades. But I am pleased with this purchase, and I think the sacrifice in reducing my number of currently owned swords was worth it.









Mike J Arledge

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Dan P




Location: Massachusetts, USA
Joined: 28 Jun 2007

Posts: 208

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Let me be the first to congratulate you on your Thegn. The feature that stands out the most to me is the pommel (at least from your pictures). Its nice to see those little subtle design details that set some swords far ahead of the rest.
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Dan Dickinson
Industry Professional



Location: Michigan
Joined: 03 Oct 2004

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PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks very nice.....how does the edge geometry differ from the sharpened Squireline Clontarf you had?
Thanks,
Dan
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Mike Arledge




Location: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 434

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Dickinson wrote:
Looks very nice.....how does the edge geometry differ from the sharpened Squireline Clontarf you had?
Thanks,
Dan


Its thinner throughout and the polish is more even. I think the Clontarf had a beefier blade to begin with, but the edges on this guy are pretty thin and nice for cutting soft targets, but likely also decent for maile.

Mike J Arledge

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Mike Harris




Location: Texas, USA
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
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Posts: 123

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike,

Thanks for going to the trouble of putting together this review and posting, along with clear photos. I've liked this sword for a long time. Your description and photos have now placed the Thegn into my short list of "MUST someday own" swords (along with the Jarl).

Thanks again!
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Paul B.





Joined: 09 Nov 2007

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's a beautiful sword, but I think you got ripped off.
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Mike Arledge




Location: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 434

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Harris wrote:
Mike,

Thanks for going to the trouble of putting together this review and posting, along with clear photos. I've liked this sword for a long time. Your description and photos have now placed the Thegn into my short list of "MUST someday own" swords (along with the Jarl).

Thanks again!


Thanks. The Jarl will be my next from this lineup I believe. At first the Jarl didn't appeal to me until I started reading more of Swords of the Viking Age, then it all clicked and I feel the Jarl is a "must have" for me down the road.

Mike J Arledge

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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz




Location: Michigan, USA
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
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Posts: 864

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice post, Mike. Real nice photos too. Even with a couch as a backdrop the Thegn
look great ...

Oddly enough I had been eye-balling that very sword at Kult Of Athena for a couple
weeks now, as well as the Knud and Reeve at Albion ...

For a long time I possessed a Clontarf as well as a Gotland but both swords'
pommels did the ole' heebie-jeebie to the heel of my hand. Then I had the pleasure of
handling a Valkyrja who pommel was very very kind to the ole' mit -- consequently
I took a re-newed look at Albion's Viking blades with a somewhat similarily shaped
pommel. And the Thegn struck me as one that might fit the bill as much as the
Knud -- whose fittings are very much if not exactly like the Valkyrja ...

And like you, I've been trying to sell-off a few swords in order to justify the purchase. Or
barring that, keeping an eyeball on the Marketplace in hopes something comes
up. I do so like the big flat paddle blades of the Viking sword ...
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Mike Arledge




Location: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 434

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, outside lighting was rough all weekend, and I had a chest cold most of the weekend, so the couch had to do for the photos.

I would love to get to handle a Valkyrja one day, I won't know if I'd want to buy one, but handle yes. If you like the blade on the Reeve, the Stamford shares it, and is a late Viking age design.

Thanks again!

Mike J Arledge

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Shayan G





Joined: 26 Sep 2006

Posts: 140

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

After seeing some real Viking swords in Dublin I gained a LOT of respect for the gentlemen at Albion for not only the historical accuracy and beauty of their blades but the presence they exude even in photographs.

Though the price means I'll likely never own this sword, or at least not until I have a house and sustainable income first, I definitely have a case of sword-lust for it Razz

Congratulations on your purchase, I think you made the right choice in your trade of the swords and camera to own this one.

You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
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Tim May




Location: Annapolis, MD
Joined: 12 Nov 2006

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey, Mike, great sword and thanks for the review! I've been looking at the Thegn for a long time, and it's great to get some more feedback on it, though it doesn't make not having one any easier Happy. About the pommel construction, here's what Peter Johnson said a while back when I asked about the construction.

Quote:
Peter Johnsson wrote:

I think that a two piece construction is to be expected in most cases of these Anglo saxn swords. Some swords have left me to wonder however.

With the Thegn the goal was to make a pommel that looks spot on to an original, regardless of manufacture method.

The two part pommel Vikings were applauded for their authenticity when they came, but still the one piece vikings sold better.

Learning the lesson from that as a designer I go back to the drawing board thinking up ways to combine less costly production methods with higer authenticity visually.
The Thegn is the first example of these.
I am looking forward to including more single piece pommels for the new Viking swords, so that they can meet a demand for less costly solutions.
The two part pommels will still be there for those who think that is an absolute criteria.
For those who are concerned with budget, there will be single piece pommels that look the part of two piece contructions.

In the case of the Thegn I would not like to be absolute in saying *all** were two part constructions, but I think they were. They do look like single piece solutions in many cases, as it is difficult to make out a dividing line between pommel and upper guard.


So it seems like it's up to the discretion of the maker, and I've noticed in Ian Peirce's book that nearing the end of the Viking/Ango-Saxon age there were many swords made to look like they had two piece pommels, while really just being formed of a single component. Congrats again though, you've really made a wonderful addition to your collection!
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Richard Hare




Location: Alberta, canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2008

Posts: 135

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice clean sword, Mike!

It should keep you happy for a long time!
Will be nice to see scabbard when it is done as well. I think these things need a home., so they don't bite you.

Best wishes,

Richard.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 6:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul B. wrote:
It's a beautiful sword, but I think you got ripped off.


Paul,
I have problems with this kind of post. While you're not totally running afoul of our rules, it's simply not in good taste to rain on someone's parade like that. I find it pretty rude, actually. Also, you give no reasons to back up your opinion.

All in all, I think it's in poor taste.

Happy

ChadA

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Mike Arledge




Location: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 434

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 6:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tim,

Thanks for that info, that really explains a lot about this piece! nice find.

Richard,

Jim Adelson with viking-shield.com is already got my in queue for a scabbard for it It should have a silver chape, and I will be working on a baldric attachment for it over the summer.

Mike J Arledge

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Paul B.





Joined: 09 Nov 2007

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Paul B. wrote:
It's a beautiful sword, but I think you got ripped off.


Paul,
I have problems with this kind of post. While you're not totally running afoul of our rules, it's simply not in good taste to rain on someone's parade like that. I find it pretty rude, actually. Also, you give no reasons to back up your opinion.

All in all, I think it's in poor taste.


Okay:

I think pretty much all the Albion swords are a ripoff. They make beautiful art objects, but their weapons are far too flimsy to be considered real swords. 4 mm thick at the guard? Ridiculous. If it was 5160 spring or even D2 that would be acceptable, maybe. But Albion makes their swords out of 1095 and they anneal it. I love to look at their swords, I'm sure they feel good in the hand, but they are wall-hangers. Classier than MRL, but still wall-hangers. Can you put it on blocks and stand on it, and then have it return to true? How does it cut? Will it split bricks? Can you bang it edge-to-edge with another sword without folding the edge? Of course you can't, the steel is too soft. I just feel bad for people who spend so much money on overpriced pseudo-weapons. If he's happy - and he sounds happy to me - then good for him, but I think Albion are overhyped and severely overpriced.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul B. wrote:

Okay:

I think pretty much all the Albion swords are a ripoff. They make beautiful art objects, but their weapons are far too flimsy to be considered real swords. 4 mm thick at the guard? Ridiculous. If it was 5160 spring or even D2 that would be acceptable, maybe. But Albion makes their swords out of 1095 and they anneal it. I love to look at their swords, I'm sure they feel good in the hand, but they are wall-hangers. Classier than MRL, but still wall-hangers. Can you put it on blocks and stand on it, and then have it return to true? How does it cut? Will it split bricks? Can you bang it edge-to-edge with another sword without folding the edge? Of course you can't, the steel is too soft. I just feel bad for people who spend so much money on overpriced pseudo-weapons. If he's happy - and he sounds happy to me - then good for him, but I think Albion are overhyped and severely overpriced.


Paul,
Albion's swords follow historical parameters and their measurements fall in line with historical swords. They are as durable as an historical sword. If you'll read our article on medieval heat-treating and steel quality, you'll see that Albion's steel (as well as other modern steels used my major makers) have a higher carbon content than historical swords. Modern swords (not just Albion's) are also heat-treated and are harder than many medieval blades.

Standing on a sword and splitting bricks is, frankly, a stupid test. Historical swords likely wouldn't pass that test. The only swords I've seen pass that kind of test are ugly, overbuilt, and totally ahistorical. Historical swords were meant to kill people, not building materials... Happy

Albion's swords are very good, and you can make the case that they best historical swords in some areas. They are far from "pseudo-weapons" as you call them. They are not wall-hangers. If they are indeed wall-hangers, then so are Arms & Armor's swords, Gus Trim's swords, MRL, Del Tin, Lutel, Armour Class, Armart, etc., etc.

I suggest you do some reading on this forum and in books about what real historical swords are and what they are capable of. Your post makes it sound as if you're unfamiliar with historical weapons.

Happy

ChadA

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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


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PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To say that Albion swords are wallhangers is a statement made from ignorance. I strongly suggest you read up on authentic European weapons and compare Albion's swords to them.

Swords are not meant to split bricks, be suspended between two blocks and stood on, etc. To say that this is the intended purpose of a sword is absolutely ridiculous, and again, completely and utterly ignorant. Attempting to use a sword in those manners is absurd and against the intended purpose of swords in general and will affect the true nature of what a sword's design is aimed at achieving.

I and others have spent quite a lot of effort with this site to place the sword in the proper context and such posts as this are filled with inaccurate nonsense.

Having said that and having first-hand knowledge of several Albion products (and many other makers who have the same characteristics), their swords are extremely durable and quite capable as swords. I've seen them used in purposefully abusive manners as a means of testing and they withstood the rigors of such abuse well. Such tests have included extreme flexing and repeated bashing against extremely hard targets with little ill effect to the weapon. Further, I'd say that Albion's swords perform and react as good if not better than any sword on the market with the same geometry (the caveat included as a means to compare apples-to-apples rather than attempt to compare a typical Albion sword with a thick-edged "beater", an over-built heavy fantasy thing, or the like).

As the administrator of this site, I welcome your opinion but urge you to take the time to consider this site's culture before you troll with such posts. The expectation here is to express yourself professionally and with intelligence. To that end, I want to reiterate that I encourage you to learn what a historical sword was, how it was shaped, how it was used, and what expectations are to be placed on it. Further, I ask all members to attempt to communicate from an informed position, having first-hand knowledge of the items being discussed and factual information in which to couch it.

I'll leave the issue of value and expense to each individual. We each have our own opinion on that sort of thing.

Paul, should you have any questions or comments on this matter, you can message me privately.

Paul B. wrote:
I think pretty much all the Albion swords are a ripoff. They make beautiful art objects, but their weapons are far too flimsy to be considered real swords. 4 mm thick at the guard? Ridiculous. If it was 5160 spring or even D2 that would be acceptable, maybe. But Albion makes their swords out of 1095 and they anneal it. I love to look at their swords, I'm sure they feel good in the hand, but they are wall-hangers. Classier than MRL, but still wall-hangers. Can you put it on blocks and stand on it, and then have it return to true? How does it cut? Will it split bricks? Can you bang it edge-to-edge with another sword without folding the edge? Of course you can't, the steel is too soft. I just feel bad for people who spend so much money on overpriced pseudo-weapons. If he's happy - and he sounds happy to me - then good for him, but I think Albion are overhyped and severely overpriced.


Albion does not use 1095. They do not anneal their blades after tempering. These statements are factually incorrect.

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Whitney Hastings




Location: New York
Joined: 28 Jan 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 08 Apr, 2008 1:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I personally agree with many of these posts in reply to Paul B. The only thing that I would counter, and this is my personal opinion here, is that Albion Swords CAN be a wallhanger as well. I personally own an Albion, yet am nervous to use it. Not in terms of the fact that I do not think it could withstand the abuse, but I am a perfectionist and I dearly love my sword in it's current, unused state. Personally for me, Albion swords are wallhangers because they are so beautiful and historical, yet I know if there ever came a time I needed to take it off the wall and hit something, it would withstand the abuse beautifully.
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Adam Bodorics
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Joined: 15 Apr 2005

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PostPosted: Tue 08 Apr, 2008 1:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

First of all, that Thegn looks beautiful, I'm envious... Big Grin
...
Second. However I'm not yet a professional, I sometimes make swords for my close and sometimes not-so-close friends (who pay only for the raw material and the used-up tools), the second group has a bit less knowledge about these, thus I sometimes get requests to make the sword strong enough to withstand the abuse Paul B. spoke of. Most usually I do not like the end product, and when the guy gets to compare it with a not-extremely-strong sword of mine, his opinion changes as well. Swords which endure such abuse must be overly thick, must have almost blunt edges and so on, resulting in an overweight or even extremely heavy blade, which takes even more weight to properly balance. Thus they are hard to consider functional swords at all. They sometimes turn out to be rather good specialised swords, but having a broad cutting-oriented blade which doesn't have enough edge to slice with... Confused If the guy can understand not to block with the edge, they can be better, but still.... and when reading this, keep in mind that I have a thing for more heavy cutters. Happy
...
The Thegn's stats seem to indicate a functional sword, just as the other Albions do. The hardness is far enough for its intended use, ie amputating limbs, penetrating torso areas covered with thick cloth and maybe some leather and so on. As both mail and wood is "softer" by different ways, hauberks and shields won't really pose a problem as far as durability goes (I didn't write penetration, I wrote sword durability). For encountering other swords... who in their right minds would intentionally static-block at all (considering all the other possibilities and the shield), especially with the edge???
...
Sorry for the rambling, but I start to get very bored of this way of thinking, I hope I didn't insult anyone too much.
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Darrin Hughes




Location: England
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
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Posts: 228

PostPosted: Tue 08 Apr, 2008 3:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good timing with the review Mike. My Thegn has been with Tod having a scabbard made and I should be picking it up later today. I'll be looking to post a few pics in the next couple of days if all goes to plan.
I can't see anything to argue with in your review, except possibly the blade length I'm sure mine isn't that long, I'll have to check when I get it back.

I bought my Thegn a couple of years back now and it was my first Albion. Whilst there will always be a certain amount of reluctance when asked to part with the sort of money that Albion charge, it was the quality of this sword that persuaded me to buy other Next Gen. swords. I now have 5, although I'm not planning on adding to that number any time soon. I'm afraid that I'm not made of money, I just went a bit mad Happy
The Thegn is possibly still my favourite as far as handling is concerned, very light and quick. I would also agree about the visual appeal of the blade, the proportions seem just right, as is the case with so many of Peter Johnssons swords.

Cheers,
Darrin.
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