[Jason G. Smith]

In WMA circles, or at least the ones I'm familiar with, gorgets/gorgerets/colletins are generally regarded as a necessary evil in order to protect (obviously) from points to the neck or blows to the cervical vertebrae. I seem to have seen interspersed throughout threads here that gorgets were in use quite early in the 14th century (which would seem to be obvious, why wouldn't these people want to protect their necks?) and included in inventories in period. What's the consensus (if any) on this? Basically, I want plausible arguments to argue in favour of gorgets in use in the fourteenth century!

[Steven H]

Plate defenses for the throat clearly existed in the 14th century but were not common. They appear alongside mail defense of the throat. I do not say gorget because few (if any) of these defenses are of the typical gorget pattern.

A stained glass window from the Tewkesbury Abbey (c.1340) depicts plate defense for the throat. These are in the form of scale type of construction with many small plates. The Holkham picture bible (c.1326) shows a similar type of defense but with larger plates.

The Holkham picture bible also depicts a different type of plate throat defense; built along the lines of a bevor except attached by a hinge to the helmet.

The Holkham also depicts, worn by the 'lower classes', a gamboised coif that extends to a mantle and therefore covers the throat. Such a garment would provide protection similar to a modern fencing masks bib. It is concievable, but not proveable to my knowledge, that such pieces were the norm under an aventail.

The glossary at Chronique states that the predominant throat defense of the 14th century is the aventail, a mail defense. That bevors were preferred in the 15th century and that gorgets did not become popular until the 16th century.

As I am a fan of the 14th century and also getting hit with pieces of aluminum I am curious about other examples.

P.S. www.gothiceye.com has pictures of lots effigies from this period and so is a great resource but the site is down right now (again)

[Randall Moffett]

A few more.

Brass os sir hugh hastings in St. Marys Church Elsing Norfolk, c. 1347. He has one and one of the smaller figures ot his right has one on as well.

From a work in French work from early 14th century called speculum theologiae one man on the far left is clearly wearing a bevor.

RPM

[Jason G. Smith]

So the feeling I'm getting is while they were definitely in use, their use was not widespread, at least not in iconographic sources. Again, it would be hard to tell if someone was wearing a gorget under a bascinet and aventail, even if it were there.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Correct--though at the same time it means you wouldn't be wrong if you insert a more substantial throat defense than just the aventail into your kit.

[William Knight]

If you want to call a plate throat defense a 'gorget' I'd say you're right, but if you mean what's generally called a gorget today, a plate defense warn under the armour, often with an articulated neck, I'd say they're 16th century animals.
-Wilhelm

[Steven H]

[Jason G. Smith]

Anyone have images of this type of helmet-mounted bevor? I'm having trouble seeing this in my mind's eye...

[Steven H]

[Randall Moffett]

Even in colour!!!

http://www.thehaca.com/arttalk/at2.htm


They are found in inventories as well. The difficult part is assuming which item they are refereing to with the term the use. At times it is clear as plate accompanies it but other times it is dodgy. Blair mentions these in European Armour.

RPM

[Jason G. Smith]

Cool, thanks guys - I guess I'll just have to live with the fact that hard collars weren't in widespread use at this time! How will I live with the shame?!

[Randall Moffett]

In the taymouth hours c. 1325 they appear to have rigid neck protection as well.

AS far as the guilt.... it would not bother me in the least.... if you want to do it I would.

RPM