The significance of weeping heart on native American hawks -- myArmoury.com

Manouchehr M.

What does the heart symolizes? I mean the heart on the blade that is pierced.

Kind regards

Manouchehr

Gordon Frye · Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject:

Manouchehr;

The best explanation I have heard is that it comes from German/Scandinavian folklore and various "hex signs" via the German settlers in Pennsylvania Colony (i.e "Pennsylvania Dutch"= "Deutch") during the early 18th Century. I read a very interesting article many years ago by a Swedish Lutheran Minister who suggested that the "Weeping Heart" is in fact a Linden Leaf, which it definitely resembles closely. The Linden tree is supposedly a source of magical power and so forth in Germanic/Scandinavian folklore, thus the use of it in both tomahawk and more commonly, in Pennsylvania/Kentucky Long Rifles of the 18th and early 19th Centuries.

Hopefully someone with a greater knowledge of such folklore will jump in to either confirm or demolish my theory...

Cheers!

Gordon

Jared Smith · Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject:

The weeping heart stood for Scotland.
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...wing+hawks

Gordon Frye · Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject:

Jared Smith · Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject:

I supose the "hawk expert" could be mistaken. The heart symbol was actually pretty common among Celts. In Scotland, the Thistle Heart (which looks like the weeping heart but formed with a thistle vine) was a pretty common betrothal symbol. There is a folktale regarding the heart, the thistle, and a marriage promise that was never broken but which was never able to be consummated. This theme was touched upon in the movie BraveHeart. Otherwise, I can't offer any defense of the assertion.

Gordon Frye · Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject:

Thanks Jared. I know that the heart proper is definitely a very Scottish symbol, lots of them used on basket hilts for cut-outs and such. That's why I was so surpised, and became interested when I came across the idea/claim that the "weeping heart" was from a totally different folkloric background. Hopefully someone will be able to set us both straight on this one, as I'd really be interested to discover what the true origins are.

Cheers!

Gordon

Jared Smith · Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject:

There may be another angle of questioning it. The "trade axes" were exported primarily from France and England. The trademarks of the French exports are well known. http://www.lanouvelle-france.com/markings.htm The weeping heart is not among them. This seems to me to favor the idea that they originated somewhere relatively close to England.

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject:

Gordon and Jared,

That is really fascinating gentlemen. Thank you very much for your input. I really appreciate it.

Kind regards

Manouchehr

Lin Robinson · Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 10:36 am Post subject:

As Gordon points out, the heart has been widely used as a symbol in Scotland. The belief of most scholars is that the heart symbolizes the heart of Robert the Bruce, which was removed after his death. Sir James Douglas and a group of Scottish knights went to Spain to fight the Moors, carrying Bruce’s preserved heart with them. It was in a fight with the Moorish forces that Sir James Douglas and several others were killed. He is supposed to have thrown the casket containing the Bruce’s heart ahead of the Scottish formation as they attacked. The heart was recovered after the fight and eventually returned to Scotland. That is the tale. Whether or not it actually happened that way can certainly be debated.

The symbolic heart is found in many places, including some that are quite unusual. For example, “heart butt” pistols, which were made in Scotland in the late 17th and early 18th centuries, are almost certainly reflections of the heart as a symbol. It also served as a fairly substantial grip.

The weeping heart, as pointed out above, may have its origins in central Europe. It is a common decoration on Pennsylvania long rifles and other folk art pieces of that time and place. That culture is most certainly Germanic. It may be found in Scotland, but I do not think that the presence of a weeping heart decoration necessarily signifies that the item so adorned is of Scottish origin.

Jared Smith · Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject:

Thanks Lin!

I had casually read of the association of the heart symbol with Robert Bruce, but did not want to claim it was still such a strong tradition a few centuries later (to an extent that during the period in question it was even appropriate for jewelry for engagements, etc.) If anyone can post pictures of historic Scottish weapons with "weeping hearts" from a period closer to Robert Bruce, I think it would add tremendously to showing continuity in this theory of the origin of the symbol as used in Scotland.

Another aspect of the author's posted subject that I have tried to be more careful about... the axes made by "American Indians" prior to the introduction of European import "trade axes" were stone, and not really stylized similar to the more distinctive "Tomohawks" suited both for throwing and puncturing.

Some of the trade axe collectors guilds (I corresponded with some after taking an interest in the ranger's presentation) do support the assertion that a known instance of the weeping heart "hawk" would be extremely rare among pre-1800's indian possessions. There were several Scottish immigrations, and they were known to have been avid enthusiasts among frontier throwing contests, the weeping heart distinctly being associated with the Scots, not the indians, during that specific era and geographical setting. It was a pretty popular design by the 1850's.

The hawk was increasingly reproduced within America throughout the 1800's, and actually kept being produced into the 1900's. By the 1940's, they were primarily produced as toys. Only very recently there has been a resurgence in reproduction popularity of it.