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Clyde Hollis
Industry Professional
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 Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: 10th Century Viking Sword from River Witham |
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Here is our newest sword in the Hank Reinhardt Collection.
A Viking sword found in the River Witham, 10th Century.Bbased from an original in the Book "Swords of the Viking Age" by Ian Pierce and Ewart Oakeshott.
Stats are as follows:
Blade length: 30 1/2"
Blade Width near hilt: 2 /12"
Blade Width near tip: 1 5/16"
Blade Thickness near hilt: 1/4"
Blade Thickness near tip: 3/32"
Handle/Hilt length: 6 3/4"
Grip Length: 3 7/8"
Overall: 37 1/4"
Balance Point: 4.25" Below Hilt
Weight: 3 lbs. 3 oz.
http://www.imperialweapons.com/swords/Reinhardt/IP-702.html
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Attachment: 57.48 KB
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Sean Belair
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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could you post some images of the original?
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean Belair wrote: | | could you post some images of the original? |
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Dan Dickinson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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The hilt.
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Jason Elrod
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| Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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For what its worth, I think that aestheticaly speaking, the Viking is head and shoulders above the Gen 2 Dordogne.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Clyde,
Thanks for sharing this. It's always good to see new products on the market. 
For a reference, what is the intention of the weapons in this series in regards to historical accuracy?
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking purely on aesthetics (since I obviously haven't handled it), I think the general proportions look good. It isn't a perfect match of the original, but as a generic representation of the type, it is much better than many Viking swords in this price range.
Chad asks a very valid question, though. If the swords of this line are supposed to be exact reproductions, they aren't quite right. If they are supposed to be historically accurate, they are missing the mark. Perhaps the goal is focused more on handling or toughness (in which case I can't make any judgement at this stage). Clarification of this goal, though, would be very useful for potential buyers.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Bruno Giordan
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Jason Elrod wrote: | | For what its worth, I think that aestheticaly speaking, the Viking is head and shoulders above the Gen 2 Dordogne. |
Strangely I see many imperfections in the original, starting from the obvious asymmetries that come from working by hand without many tools.
The cross is asymmetrical, the pommels and the tang are too.
The only defect I see in the modern replica is in the fuller grove that ends a little before the cross in an arch-like way, while it should disappear a little bit under the cross whithout any arching.
Replicas is very good in my eyes, provided that the blade geometry be correct, with could only be seen by comparing the replica with the original or with a perfectly replicated blade.
Ok, the replica's blade is a bit too narrow at the base, lacking the typical braod base of such class, but I feel that the blade is nonetheless beautiful.
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Bruno Giordan
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Jason Elrod wrote: | | For what its worth, I think that aestheticaly speaking, the Viking is head and shoulders above the Gen 2 Dordogne. |
mm, maybe you were thinking of a replica blade?
I thought you were comparing the original and the replica.
I have seen quite a few originals whose imperfections would have them thrashed by any modern collector if replicated exactly as they were.
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Clyde Hollis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | Clyde,
Thanks for sharing this. It's always good to see new products on the market.
For a reference, what is the intention of the weapons in this series in regards to historical accuracy? |
This is our first proto-type. We have submitted changes so that the fuller goes into the guard. And we may look a little more closely at the guard. It does have a good shape but we may make it thinner and put more diamonds.
I will have to get the book back out and read. I know we did the blade correctly (except for the fuller not going into the guard) and the weight as well, but I was asked about the copper diamonds in the hilt and I do believe, but not going to ask that you hold me to it, but I believe the diamonds for some reason was copper. I will double check on this.
From what I have gathered, most people are saying this is? They like it?, Great job?, Improving?
We always have room for improving. But question to myArmoury, are we getting there?
Clyde
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Clyde,
From what I can see in the pics, the blade tip is not a diamond cross-section. That's good. Is it hexagonal or is it a more proper flattened lenticular shape? I'm actually quite happy to not see a mid-rib in the tip section.
The pommel looks flat, like a 2D rendering of a 3D object. It lacks the subtleness and grace of the original. That said, it's not too bad for what people usually expect from this price range.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Hugo Voisine
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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With a fuller ending under the guard and a blade a bit more wide at the base, I think the sword will be particularly good for the price.
I might buy it... would be my first gen 2.
« Que dites-vous ?... C'est inutile ?... Je le sais !
Mais on ne se bat pas dans l'espoir du succès !
Oh ! non, c'est bien plus beau lorsque c'est inutile ! »
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Brian D. A.
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Why is there a little steel band at the top of the grip? It would look better without it. Also, I think it would look nicer if the pommel were a little more curved on the bottom like the original.
I think that thinning the guard and adding more diamonds along with continuing the fuller under the guard are great improvements. I'm really looking forward to seeing the final version.
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian D. A. wrote: | Why is there a little steel band at the top of the grip? It would look better without it. Also, I think it would look nicer if the pommel were a little more curved on the bottom like the original.
I think that thinning the guard and adding more diamonds along with continuing the fuller under the guard are great improvements. I'm really looking forward to seeing the final version. |
I like it, I think it looks good, an improvement over most of the Viking swords in this price range, I like the blade shape and the fact that it has a pretty wide fuller (wider still might be good). I agree the pommel could be a bit less flat, and I'm not to sure about the copper diamonds though perhaps they will grow on me.
I for one really appreciate the ongoing efforts to improve historical accuracy.
Jean
Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum
Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
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Thomas Watt
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Not that I'm an expert or anything, but if I got to make only one comment, it would be that I would prefer to see the reverse arch in the pommel on the newly-man'd sword come closer to the original. Not only do i think it more attractive, I think it is more functional in allowing the hand to shift it's grip while holding the sword.
But I also have to say (echoing several other more note-worthy folks here) that for it's price range, it's still a very nice blade.
Have 11 swords, 2 dirks, half a dozen tomahawks and 2 Jeeps - seem to be a magnet for more of all.
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Hugh Fuller
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, Clyde. That is a really nide piece. If I had not committed to Patrick Barta for one of his works of art, I would be snapping one up. But I have and I need to save my pennies.
Hugh
Still trying to walk in the Light
Please see 1 John 1:5
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Richard Fay
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hello all!
Hi Clyde!
I personally like the looks of this one; I think it shows potential. Curve the cross and the underside of the pommel a bit more, and it may look more like the original. Like Chad's already pointed out, the point cross-section is a nice departure from many of the swords in this price range. And as others have mentioned, extend the fuller into the cross, and the blade will look very nice. I think you're improving the looks of each subsequent new piece, and that's a good thing!
Keep it up!
Stay safe!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Looks pretty good to me and any of the improvements suggested are subtle: Good ideas to improve the sword if you can modify the present prototype without increasing your costs too much or the final price you are aiming for.
Yes Clyde I think you are getting there and it's great that you are asking for input and applying the suggestions when possible.
But asking for feedback also takes some guts because you won't always hear what you wanted to hear or were expecting to hear. Its good to keep in mind that the first thing people will see or comment on are the thing they perceive rightly or wrongly as errors i.e. ask for possible improvements about any sword and you will get it.
Just mentioning the above because this sword gets a lot more right than wrong and those changes to the fuller and a more 3D feel in the volumes of the pommel will make this one very VERY attractive for the price.
Good material, design and strong construction doesn't seem to be a problem with your product though and is also something wanted from an affordable sword ( as mentioned on previous topic posts ): So just small improvements in aesthetics will have a large effect on the desirability of your product. ( at least for the part of the market that can tell the difference ).
Bottom line though is that the more I look at it the better it looks. 
Oh, one thought might be some aging or darkening of the steel on guard and pommel would make the inlays stand out more ? Although this might be one of those home project things that some of us might like to do ourselves and another reason for buying.  
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jared Smith
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| Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: 10th Century Viking Sword from River Witham |
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| Clyde Hollis wrote: | Here is our newest sword in the Hank Reinhardt Collection.
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Clyde,
Thats very nice. If one considers the price point and that this is only the prototype, its amazing! I really like the nice touch with the copper inlays. I have only previously seen that being offered on some really higher end custom pieces. Congratulations.
I was interested in the weight statistic being somewhere close to 3 lbs and 3 ounces. Is this representative of a reasonable estimate of what the original weight "probably was near" prior to corrosion and loss of the grip material?
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 16 Feb, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | ...it's great that you are asking for input and applying the suggestions when possible.
But asking for feedback also takes some guts because you won't always hear what you wanted to hear or were expecting to hear. Its good to keep in mind that the first thing people will see or comment on are the thing they perceive rightly or wrongly as errors i.e. ask for possible improvements about any sword and you will get it. |
I just wanted to second what Jean said here. It is fantastic for makers to put themselves out there and be open to criticism for the sake of improving the product, even if it can sometimes feel like putting one's neck on the chopping block.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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This is a standard topic