what kind of dagger is this? -- myArmoury.com

Butch Nobles · Posted: Sun 11 Feb, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: what kind of dagger is this?

Can anyone ID this? I have taken it to several gun & knife shows, and opinions range from all over the globe. Overall length is 12 inches. The hilt apears to be carved ivory, as it has turned a honey colored brown. The sheath appears to be the same steel as the blade. Great workmanship. Held upside down the blade will not fall out, yet is easily removed with the light touch of two fingers.
Thanks

Glen A Cleeton · Posted: Sun 11 Feb, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject:

Hi Butch,

This looks like it could be a European made facon, or puñal (large knife) meant for the South American (mostly Argentina) market. Possibly from the last decades of the 19th century. I'm sure some others will probably chime in. Basically a do-all type of knife traditionally carried at the small of the back.

Are there wood slats inside the scabbard? I ask this because mine deteriorated and it was a real bugger getting the remains out. I have an early 20th century piece that is/was more of a stylistic statement. Yours looks like it was made when they were still in much more real use.

Nice piece.

Cheers

GC

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

From what i've seen the South American knives, sometimes called "gaucho knives" have the hilt and the scabbard covered in silver. This appears to be what i've seen called a "vendetta knife". Most i've seen have a Venatian attributation although i've seen some from Spain as well. They've ranged in age from late 17th to late 19th century. The form of the "gaucho knife" and the "vendetta knife" are similar altough decorated much differently and the " vendetta knives" i've seen are larger than the South American "gaucho knives" i've seen. Really sharp looking blade and sheath either way!

Glen A Cleeton · Posted: Sun 11 Feb, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject:

Hi Allan,

Here are some earlier pieces that are said to be representative of working "gaucho" knives

http://forums.swordforum.com/attachment.php?a...1161147924

http://forums.swordforum.com/attachment.php?a...1161147840

Some more thought here but be forewarned the topic changes from simple description of a facon
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=72872

I feel that the German silver versions were late to arrive on the scene and many are quite diminutive. For instance mine is barely 9" long overall and probably a stylistic statement, or tourist item. Something along these lines

http://www.cc.e-mansion.com/~satohy/knife5.gif

Certainly, there are large ones and knife/gun shows are often littered with them. I think the largest one I have seen was roughly eighteen inches in its scabbard.

http://www.vester.com.ar/argentina/imagenes/facon-0199.jpg

Butch's piece definitely has a Mediterranean blade form flavor to it, as do many of the facon blades we see on the metal hilted ones. What really tips me towards a European piece meant for the SA market is the stud on the scabbard. I have never seen a fixed blade listed as a vendetta knife, only large folders. Would you have reference for examples?

Cheers

GC

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Sun 11 Feb, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject:

Giuseppe Maresca · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 2:50 am Post subject:

It seems a Samuel Bell style dirk.
It is very similar to this, posted on Don Fogg's forum.
http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=5113

Glen A Cleeton · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 5:25 am Post subject:

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Glen i'm sorry I don't, I used to have a huge stack of "Museum of Historical Arms" catalogs from the 50's and 60's ( these things were pretty common on the market back then it seems) that had alot of these ( i've never seen a folding knife refered to as a vendetta knife. interesting) and as you said they turn up at gun shows still. There are a number of examples in the "dirks/dagger" album here several with Mediteranian attributations.

Russ Ellis · Industry Professional

Butch Nobles · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject:

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Butch, now I see that the sheath is silver. In the first set of pics it looked like patinated steel from the lighting. That sure is a nice looking weapon!

Butch Nobles · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject:

Giuseppe Maresca · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 8:44 am Post subject:

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Guiseppe, I used to have one similar to the top one you posted and was what got me interested in the type but i'd never heard the folders called that. I've only ever heard them refered to as "clasp knives". Is there a difference in the dimensions of the folding "vendetta" and clasp kinves( ie. longer or broader blade) or is it a matter of two names for the thing?

Giuseppe Maresca · Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 4:35 am Post subject:

"Clasp knife" is just an other way to say "folding knife" so there aren't specific dimension for it.
The "vendetta" is a traditional knife from Corsica, France, even if its name means "revenge" in Italian language. The dimension can change a lot (the blade can measure from 8 to 25cm) but the blade shape is always the same: pointy and similar to an olive leaf.