Mounted Condottiere Sword -- myArmoury.com

Merv Cannon · Posted: Sun 11 Feb, 2007 11:53 pm Post subject: Mounted Condottiere Sword

I came across this image from this site here.... http://www.paradoxplace.com/Insights/Equestrian/Equestrians.htm ...and I wondered when I saw that the Longsword seems to not have a full scabbard. It seems to be only about 12 inches long and the blade seems bare. I have seen this type of sword suspension in Landsknecht woodcuts but never on a mounted warrior. The sculpturers, one of whom was Michangelo's teacher, paid very great attention to detail in this statue as this Condottiere was very important in Venice. IMHO, it is unlikely that much artistic licience was used.
Wouldnt a sword suspended like this hurt the horse or is the blade too long to get in the way ? Does anyone else have any illustrations of unusual suspensions, mounted or otherwise ?
I am interrested to hear your feedback.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

That's fascinating... very good find.

I'd be interested to see the woodcuts showing hangers with exposed blades.

Is it a bare blade? I'm not certain...

Thank you.

Peter Johnsson · Industry Professional

Why do you think the blade is bare?

Scabbards were slim and thin.
They did not build much volume around the blade, that is why it might seem likte the blade is bare.

The suspension is typical for this period: two knots with thongs to attach to the waist belt.

Merv Cannon · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: Condittiere Sword

Merv Cannon · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: Condittiere Sword

Vincent Le Chevalier · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 2:56 am Post subject:

Jonathon Janusz · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 4:55 am Post subject:

I didn't see sculpted in the statue anything that would show where the "scabbard" ends and the blade begins to suggest that it doesn't go all the way to the tip. . .

Maybe I missed something?

Alberto Dainese · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Condittiere Sword

Merv Cannon · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Condittiere Sword

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 8:35 am Post subject:

solution is here

Look at the cross

http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/italy/padu...ropped.jpg

a good series of views of the monument

http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/italy/padu...elata.html

Richard Fay · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 8:55 am Post subject:

Hello all!

I agree with Bruno, there definitely appears to be a sculpted "triangle" over the central part of the cross, indicating a typical triangular overlap of the scabbard cover over the central part of the cross. I could see it if I looked carefully at the side-view photo posted earlier, but it's definitely visible in the head-on view.

My question would be this; did every period scabbard have a chape at it's end? Could this be a case of a scabbard without a chape, making it appear as if the blade were carried bare in the loops, or is the chape just indistinct? Could the tip of the scabbard, since it's small and juts out, have suffered differential wear? Could the finer details like a chape have been lost over time?

When you think about how narrow the blade represented in the statue must have been, you realize that it represents a definite thrusting-sword. That weapon must have been a wicked thruster, certainly not a dedicated cutter by any means. Almost an estoc.

Neat statue, though. I've always liked this one.

Cowabunga! Big Grin

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

So.... about those woodcuts?

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 10:41 am Post subject:

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 10:50 am Post subject:

Couple of observations.

look at the cross: unusual (straight, very thick, a volute at the two ends), is more an architetcural element than a real cross.

So don't take the statue as too realistic on such details: it is realistic just as for the body and teh face, this was the focus of renaissance art, body proportions.

Gattamelata is depicted as a roman consul (please notice the roman breastplate gaily mingled with a period armor).

As for the roman statuary, the facial features are realistic with just a bit of idealization.

Even hairdo is typically ancient roman style, as it is the angel-like winged face on the breastplate.

The position is similar to that of Rome's Marc'Aurelio emperor (one of the few bronze statues to survive from the roman age).

Renaissance sculptors were concentrated mainly on studyng the math behind the proportions of things, a sword scabbard was not their primary concern for sure.

It is a masterwork of lost wax fusion too.

Steve Grisetti · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 10:56 am Post subject:

All of the discussion on this statue has been about full scabbard vs. partial scabbard, and that's great because that is the basis for the thread. But, what really impresses me most about the statue is the horse. This strikes me as a marvelous representation of an immensely powerful and majestic animal!

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 11:40 am Post subject:

Richard Fay · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject:

Richard Fay · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject:

And how about a woodcut, and an engraving, and a painting...

I found more period images that may show a similar style suspension system to that shown on the Gattamelata statue. These were all found on the Web Gallery of Art web site.

The first two images are both by Albrecht Durer. The first is a woodcut of a knight and a landesknecht dated to circa 1497. notice that the mounted knight has a suspension system of loops similar to that shown at the hip of the landesknecht. The loops of the knight's system are just closer together. This could be to adjust the "hang" of the scabbard, but that's only speculation.

The second image is a rather famous engraving by Durer. It depicts a knight, death, and the devil, and dates to circa 1513. Again, certain details may be different, but the scabbard suspension consists of looped straps. Like the previous image, this system appears used by a knight (or at least an armoured horseman).

The third image is a painting of St. Michael by Perugino, dated circa 1500. Note that, yet again, the armoured saint has the scabbard suspended by looped straps. I find this one of particular interest because of the shape of the long, narrow blade, as suggested by the scabbard outlines. The cross and pommel of the saint's sword are daintier than that on the Gattamelata statue, but the blade of St. Michael's sword is very similar to that shown on the statue. In this case, if the painting wasn't coloured, it might be interpreted as a bare blade. However, the scabbard is clearly of a red colouration.

Rod Walker · Posted: Mon 12 Feb, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject:

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Hi Rick-

Thanks for the images. I was asking to see "partial scabbards" with exposed blades sticking out. I don't see the ones that you posted as being that. Are we seeing something different from one another? Help me get on the same page.

I have seen the knotted suspension all over the place. It was very common. The interesting and unusual assertion of this topic was the discussion of the sword carried with an exposed blade. That is what I'm trying to see documented.

Thanks!