| myArmoury.com is now completely member-supported. Please contribute to our efforts with a donation. Your donations will go towards updating our site, modernizing it, and keeping it viable long-term.
Last 10 Donors: Anonymous, Daniel Sullivan, Chad Arnow, Jonathan Dean, M. Oroszlany, Sam Arwas, Barry C. Hutchins, Dan Kary, Oskar Gessler, Dave Tonge (View All Donors) |
| Author |
Message |
Rodolfo Martínez
|
 Posted: Mon 05 Feb, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: Use of helms. |
 |
|
Hello Gentlemen.
I was investigating the usage of helmets during middle ages and renaissance and i found different versions in different sites. For example, in a web site i found that Barbutas were totally replaced by armets in the very early 1500, while in other sites i found that their use were still widely spreaded during XVI century.
Do you know if barbutas, great helmets(I actually don´t know if great helmet is the true name of this helmet, so i´m posting the photo) and sallets were still used among european men-at-arms during the XVI century?
Thanks
 Attachment: 13.48 KB
¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
|
|
  |
 |
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
|
| Posted: Mon 05 Feb, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Most agree great helms (also know as heaumes) were out of widespread battlefield use by the end of the 14th century, though there were likely exceptions. After that time, they were used in tourneys, until they fell out of use even for that, being replaced by other helms, often reinforced my pieces of exchange. Helms similar to the helm you pictured probably would have been out of style by the mid-14th century (at the very latest).
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
|
|
  |
|
Richard Fay
|
| Posted: Mon 05 Feb, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Use of helms. |
|
|
| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: | Hello Gentlemen.
I was investigating the usage of helmets during middle ages and renaissance and i found different versions in different sites. For example, in a web site i found that Barbutas were totally replaced by armets in the very early 1500, while in other sites i found that their use were still widely spreaded during XVI century.
Do you know if barbutas, great helmets(I actually don´t know if great helmet is the true name of this helmet, so i´m posting the photo) and sallets were still used among european men-at-arms during the XVI century?
Thanks |
Rodolfo,
A great helm like the replica you posted would be considered old-fashioned by the end of the 13th century. By then, the helms often had a rounded top, or were of the "sugar-loaf" variety. A few had moveable visors as well. These helms can be seen in use alongside bascinets in to the early parts of the 14th century, but were pretty well replaced by the bascinet in battle by the mid 14th century.
A type of great helm survived in use in tournaments through the 14th century (the great helm of Edward the Black Prince and the Pembridge helm are good examples), eventually developing into the "frog-mouth" helm used in the late 14th and 15th centuries. These were used pretty much exclusively in tournaments; they are "jousting helms".
There is some debate over the usage of the terms barbuta/barbute/barbut. Period sources aren't always clear regarding what specific type of helmet is being mentioned. The term barbut is first mentioned in Italy in the middle of the 14th century, but it is not clear what type of helmet is actually being referred to. It seems to have denoted a special kind of bascinet, perhaps with a T-shaped opening for the face. It appears that the term was definitely applied to a form of helmet made in one piece(Claude Blair calls it a form of sallet), often with a T-shaped or "Corinthian" opening for the face. Blair states that the helmet with the T-faced opening had gone out of use by circa 1470.
Here's the definition of barbuta from Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight by David Edge and John Miles Paddock:
| Edge and Paddock wrote: |
Barbut Also called barbute, barbuta. An open-faced shoulder-length Italian helmet, made in one piece, with a T-shaped face opening. Barbuta is the Italian term. |
Edge and Paddock echo Blair about when the barbuta fell out of fashion. Most examples seem to date from the mid to late 15th century. I don't think they were really in use in the 16th.
The sallet seems to have had a wider popularity, both in time and place. The word celata first appears in the Gonzaga inventory of 1407. The sallets, or celatas, in use during the time barbutas were in use (1430's or 1440's) were similar to the barbutas except that the celatas had a wide, arched opening for the face. By the 1480's the celata developed a laminated neck guard and brow reinforce. This form was apparently in use until the end of the second decade of the 16th century.
The armet, a helmet developed from the great bascinet, had a skull with two hinged cheek pieces which lock in the front, and a visor. This probably originated in Italy by the early 15th century. It remained in use through the 15th and 16th centuries. Eventually, a helmet with a full visor and bevor that pivotted open on bolts and rivtes was developed around 1500. This is called close-helmet by modern students of arms and armour, but in period there was no real distinction between it and the armet.
The late 15th century forms of armet, and sallet remained in use alongside the newer forms of helmet, which were to include the close-helmet, burgonet, and morion, until around 1520. The burgonet, derived from the sallet, appeared around the first decade of the 16th century. This became the main helmet for infantry and light cavalry throughout the 16th century. It was a light, open-faced helmet, usually furnished with a peak over the brow, a combed skull, and hinged ear pieces. A falling buffe could be used to cover the face opening. The morion was a development of the kettle hat.
I hope this rambling helped a bit. I would suggest that you purchase some of the books I have referenced here. You will get better information from these works than most web sites (except here, of course). Many are out-of-print, but may be available used through the bookstore here on myArmoury.com. Here's a list to get you atarted:
European Armour Circa 1066 to Circa 1700 by Claude Blair (highly recommended if you can find it).
Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight by David Edge and John Miles Paddock.
A Knight and His Armor by Ewart Oakeshott (some of the information regarding padded garments is outdated, but the information about plate harness is pretty good).
Brassey's Book of Body Armor by Robert Woosnam-Savage and Anthony Hall (a bit simplistic, but a good introduction to armor).
Many of your questions could be answered if you had one or two of these volumes, especially the Blair work, or Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight.
Stay safe!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Fay
|
| Posted: Mon 05 Feb, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hello again!
I thought I would post some quotes from Blair's European Armour Circa 1066 to Circa 1700 regarding the use and form of the great helm, just to give some dates, with some mention of the bascinet as well:
| Claude Blair wrote: |
After c. 1250 the upper part of the helm was often tapered slightly. In the last quarter of the century the taper became more pronounced until the crown had become almost conical, usually truncated at the top...A few illustrations of round-topped helms also occur in the late 13th and early 14th centuries, but they are less common than the conical type...
As early as 1298, in the will of Odo de Roussillin, there is a reference to a heaume a vissere...during the period c. 1300-40, illustrations of helms with such a feature (as a moveable visor) are not uncommon. They are usually closely similar in form to the normal conical or round-topped helm, except that part or the whole of the front is pivotted to the skull on each side and can be raised upwards. When seen with the visor raised these helms look very much like bascinets and it is not clear which term should be applied to them. Also during the period c. 1300-40 the ordinary helm was occasionally fitted with a pivotted reinforcing-bevor which covered the face-guard below the sights.
The term bascinet is uncommon in texts dating from before c. 1300, but thereafter it is found with great frequency until c. 1450 and then more rarely until c. 1550...
The bascinet remained the most popular form of helmet throughout the period (1330-1410)...
After c. 1330 the bascinet was almost invariably fitted with its own aventail, sometimes reinforced with a plate bevor...
Throughout the period (1330-1410) the bascinet when not concealed by the helm is often shown with a visor...
After c 1350 there was a tendency for the helm to be relegated to the tournament field, though illustrations of it being worn in battle can still be found until the early years of the 15th century, particularly in Germany and Italy....
As early as c. 1400 the first true tournament helm, of the so-called "frog-mouthed" form, had made its appearance. What appears to be a helm of this type is, in fact, shown on the second seal of the Salzburg gunmaker Gregor Criech, used from 1388...By the second decade of the 15th century this form seems to have supplanted every other...This type of helm remained in use throughout Europe until the 1530's with little variation in its basic form... |
I hope this was helpful and interesting. I was actually surprised by the mention of helms being seen in art up to the early 15th century. I think the bascinet certainly was still more common by the middle of the 14th century. However, now that I think about it, King Henry V supposedly wore a helm at Agincourt.
By the way, Rodolfo, if your interested in 16th century helmets, check out this article about the burgonet:
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_burgonet.html
Stay safe!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
|
|
|
|
|
Bruno Giordan
|
| Posted: Tue 06 Feb, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Use of helms. |
|
|
Barbuta means literally the bearded one (female form: italian distinguishes between a male and a female form. Male form would be barbuto, a bearded man).
Celata means hidden, the hidden one, again female form.
I guess that both words are italian in origin, since to call an helm a thing with a beard, when this helm just covers the zone of the male face where a beard appears, would mean that the origin of such helm are where it has been devised: barbut would mean nothing in any other languages, if I'm not wrong, or better, it would mean bearded male in lombard languages (hom barbut), the languages of Milan and Brescia, where such helmets were made in great quantities.
In modern french a bearded male is barbu
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Fay
|
| Posted: Tue 06 Feb, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Use of helms. |
|
|
| Bruno Giordan wrote: | Barbuta means literally the bearded one (female form: italian distinguishes between a male and a female form. Male form would be barbuto, a bearded man).
Celata means hidden, the hidden one, again female form.
I guess that both words are italian in origin, since to call an helm a thing with a beard, when this helm just covers the zone of the male face where a beard appears, would mean that the origin of such helm are where it has been devised: barbut would mean nothing in any other languages, if I'm not wrong, or better, it would mean bearded male in lombard languages (hom barbut), the languages of Milan and Brescia, where such helmets were made in great quantities.
In modern french a bearded male is barbu |
I had actually heard that reference to the root of the word barbuta. There is a period reference to a barbuta as some sort of mail tippet or aventail before it referred to a helmet. Think a beard of mail.
It just goes to show how ambiguous period terms can be!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
|
|
|
|
|
Rodolfo Martínez
|
| Posted: Tue 06 Feb, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you very much for your pattience and the intresting link guys. 
I have something more to ask. Despite the ambiguous terms, I was told that during XIV century pig or sparrow faced helmets (Sorry, i don´t remember the name.  ) And i was told too that during XVI century close helmets were widely used by gendarmes during xvi century, but as there are a lot of types of helmet i´m not rally sure, Do you know wich helm was more popular between Man-at-arms during XVI century?
Thanks.
¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Fay
|
| Posted: Tue 06 Feb, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: Visors... |
|
|
Hello all!
Rodolfo,
The term "pig-faced" is typically used to refer to the late fourteenth and early fifteenth century bascinet visors that had an elongated "snout". Another term for these is hounskull, a corruption of the German Hundsgugel , hound's hood. These were usually called "visored bascinets", or the French equivalent, in Medieval England. These visors could be either side-hinged, or top-hinged, also known as klappvisier. The conical snout of the hounskull or "pig-faced" visors became quite prominent by the late fourteenth century. (Again, check out the myArmoury article about the fouteenth century bascinet for some examples.)
There are actually several surviving examples of bascinets with "pig-faced" visors. There is an interesting one, made up of several pieces from the same period, of the late fourteenth century, in the Museo Civico L. Marzoli, in Brescia. There is a northern Italian once of circa 1380-1400 with aventail in the Churburg armoury. There is a second Milanese one from Churburg of circa 1390-1400 without an aventail, but with a slightly rounded snout. There is another bascinet of circa 1400, missing the aventail, in the Oldescalchi Collection. There is yet another of circa 1400-1410, this time with the central klappvisier hinge, from Kunstsammlung der Veste, Coburg. And there is one of circa 1400 with a plate gorget, but still a pointed snout, in the Musee de L'Armee.
Sparrow's-beak visors are more typical of later helmets. The armet toward the middle of the fifteenth century developed into a shape called the "sparrow's beak" because of the blunt, sparrow's beak-like, point of the visor. This remained in use until the end of the century, and the visor was also adapted for use on the close-helmet.
I believe that the armet or close-helmet would have been popular for fully armoured warriors of the sixteenth century. Keep in mind, however, contemporary sources don't distinguish between the close-helmet and the armet. Both usually cover the whole head and face when the visor is lowered. Blair calls the close-helmet the most characteristic of the sixteenth century helmets.
I hope this helped!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
|
|
|
|
|
Bruno Giordan
|
| Posted: Tue 06 Feb, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Use of helms. |
|
|
| Richard Fay wrote: | | Bruno Giordan wrote: | Barbuta means literally the bearded one (female form: italian distinguishes between a male and a female form. Male form would be barbuto, a bearded man).
Celata means hidden, the hidden one, again female form.
I guess that both words are italian in origin, since to call an helm a thing with a beard, when this helm just covers the zone of the male face where a beard appears, would mean that the origin of such helm are where it has been devised: barbut would mean nothing in any other languages, if I'm not wrong, or better, it would mean bearded male in lombard languages (hom barbut), the languages of Milan and Brescia, where such helmets were made in great quantities.
In modern french a bearded male is barbu |
I had actually heard that reference to the root of the word barbuta. There is a period reference to a barbuta as some sort of mail tippet or aventail before it referred to a helmet. Think a beard of mail.
It just goes to show how ambiguous period terms can be! |
What puzzles me more is the world celata.
A sallet actually doesn't hide anything, at least if we speak of a face: it is an open helmet in the italian area.
BTW, if you take away the vowels from sallet and celata you see that it is the same word, rendered into another languag: slt, clt (c is pronounced in this case as the c of Tchaikovsky).
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Fay
|
| Posted: Tue 06 Feb, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Use of helms. |
|
|
| Bruno Giordan wrote: |
What puzzles me more is the world celata.
A sallet actually doesn't hide anything, at least if we speak of a face: it is an open helmet in the italian area.
BTW, if you take away the vowels from sallet and celata you see that it is the same word, rendered into another languag: slt, clt (c is pronounced in this case as the c of Tchaikovsky). |
Bruno,
I wouldn't try to understand period terms too deeply. It can start your head spinning! 
I wonder if the term has to do with how much of the head was hidden in early celatas. If they were similar in form to the barbutas, then much of the sides of the head and neck would have been "hidden". They may have developed a more open term later on. Of course, since barbuta and celata seem to have originally been interchangeable, perhaps the term celata actually referred to the type of helmet with the T-shaped face opening that we now call a barbute/barbut/barbuta. Blair does say that by circa 1430-40 the terms celata and barbuta seem to have been applied indiscriminately, even though the barbuta was clearly differentiated from the celata in the Gozaga inventory of 1407.
Confused yet?
By the way, I thought I would post a few links to photos in the albums here of sixteenth-century helmets. They may give Rodolfo an idea of what warriors of the time would have worn.
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4282.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/2242.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/2244.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4268.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4277.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4283.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4284.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/1880.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/1882.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/1887.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/1914.html
I hope this helps!
Stay safe!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kel Rekuta
|
| Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: Re: Use of helms. |
|
|
| Richard Fay wrote: | | Bruno Giordan wrote: |
What puzzles me more is the world celata.
A sallet actually doesn't hide anything, at least if we speak of a face: it is an open helmet in the italian area.
BTW, if you take away the vowels from sallet and celata you see that it is the same word, rendered into another languag: slt, clt (c is pronounced in this case as the c of Tchaikovsky). |
Bruno,
I wouldn't try to understand period terms too deeply. It can start your head spinning!
I wonder if the term has to do with how much of the head was hidden in early celatas. If they were similar in form to the barbutas, then much of the sides of the head and neck would have been "hidden". They may have developed a more open term later on. Of course, since barbuta and celata seem to have originally been interchangeable, perhaps the term celata actually referred to the type of helmet with the T-shaped face opening that we now call a barbute/barbut/barbuta. Blair does say that by circa 1430-40 the terms celata and barbuta seem to have been applied indiscriminately, even though the barbuta was clearly differentiated from the celata in the Gozaga inventory of 1407.
Confused yet?
|
The barbuta was also known as celata alla Veneziana. Even more fun... 14th &15thC Italian cavalry units were called barbute. Was this because they all wore a particular style of helmet? 
Isn't defining armour terminology fun?
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Fay
|
| Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hello all!
I wouldn't try to analyze period terms too deeply, they weren't always as specific-minded as we "moderns" tend to be. Anyway, languages evolve. I can't understand a lot of the slang I hear on the street, and many words such as "bad" can take on different meanings at different times.
To continue on with the answer to Rodolfo's questions regarding armets and "pig-faced"helmets, I thought I would present a few images of some helmets. These are just additions to those presented in the articles and albums.
The first image is of a German bacinet from the Metropolitan Mueum of Art. It's very similar to one shown in the article about bascinets, but in this case the snout comes to a point instead of a knob. This one has a visor of "pig-faced" klappvisier form.
The next two are early armets. Notice the interesting "crenellated" edge on the one, and the fact that both have slightly conical tops. They sort of look like "modified" bascinets in a way. Note, too, that they retain the vervelles for a mail aventail.
Keep in mind that the "pig-faced" bascinet is most prevelant in the late fourteenth century and very early fifteenth century, and the early armets date to the early fifteenth century. You would have helmets of somewhat different form for the sixteenth. Also remember that you could have several different types of helmet in use at any one time, and different types were more popular in different regions.
Attachment: 40.13 KB
German bascinet from the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Attachment: 110.96 KB
Early armet.
Attachment: 77.68 KB
Another early armet.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
|
|
|
|
|
Rodolfo Martínez
|
| Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Isn't defining armour terminology fun? |
Yes! Specially when we don´t know if we are talking about the same thing.
In a T.v. program i saw a man calling ¨mandoble¨(Spanish denomination for two handed sword) to a longsword, which is not totally wrong because i guess it was a long gripped type xviiib sword (In the Age of Chivalry) but not totaly accurate too. I´m not an expert, i remember that by that time i though that those swords were shortened zweihanders.
Well, the next example is not a single word with a lot of meaning but a lot of meannings for the same thing.
Sometimes happens that in some roleplaying games appears as totally different swords the ¨longsword¨, ¨bastard sword¨ and the ¨great sword¨, or the broad sword as a broader and shorter version of a longsword dwscribed as a single hand gripped sword.
Sometimes the three versions of the barbuta (The corinthian T helm, the face opened and the other one which is open only in the area of the eyes and nose) as three different helms with different names and attributes in some RPGs.
They are only games, no need for reality, but there are a lot of examples of such confusion nowdays, so if you want to define something accurately you must have your head very deep in the subject, if not you fall the risk of being confused too, like me.
Knowing their language is for great help too.
¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
|
|
|
|
|
Bruno Giordan
|
| Posted: Thu 08 Feb, 2007 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Use of helms. |
|
|
Richard, it becomes clear that the word had a precise meaning at their birth, which became immediately scrambled, as it was common for military matters.
I have read an early renaissance manuscript work by a brescian condottiere: it is written in a nice mix of italian, brescian, latin, a work nicely epitomizing the ignorance of a man at arms of that age.
They were not exactly Petrarchs: their terminology was imprecise since they were not literate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum
|
This is a standard topic