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Max von Bargen
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 Posted: Tue 30 Jan, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: Assyrian mail? |
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Today I heard someone describing an Assyrian relief of the 10th century BCE and mentioned that one of the warriors wore "bronze chain mail." He didn't seem to be a military history or arms and armour expert, but this not only seems extremely early dating for mail (one of my sources said that mail was invented around 300 BCE), but I've never heard of functional bronze mail either. Is this just a case of the man misinterpreting the relief, or is there something about mail that I haven't heard of?
Thanks,
Max
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Hisham Gaballa
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| Posted: Tue 30 Jan, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Assyrian mail? |
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| Max von Bargen wrote: | Today I heard someone describing an Assyrian relief of the 10th century BCE and mentioned that one of the warriors wore "bronze chain mail." He didn't seem to be a military history or arms and armour expert, but this not only seems extremely early dating for mail (one of my sources said that mail was invented around 300 BCE), but I've never heard of functional bronze mail either. Is this just a case of the man misinterpreting the relief, or is there something about mail that I haven't heard of?
Thanks,
Max |
I think I know the reliefs being referred to. These are 9th century BC reliefs from the plalace of Nimrud, now in the British Museum. They show Assyrian Archers wearing a conical helmet with an attached "aventail" and wearing an ankle length garment with elbow length sleeves, which does indeed look strikingly like a mail hauberk. However the caption under the reliefs interprets them as being scale armour. Furthermore the British Museum has an Assyrian iron helmet dating to the 8th century BC, so the Assyrians were perfectly capable of working in iron.
I took photos of some of these reliefs back in October, unfortunately they are rather poor quality, please click on the thumbnails:
  
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Max von Bargen
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| Posted: Tue 30 Jan, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Assyrian mail? |
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Thanks for your help, Hisham.
Max
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Tue 30 Jan, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Victorians commonly used the word "mail" to describe any sort of metal armour - plate mail, scale mail, chain mail, etc. The above reliefs have not been misidentified. The person who described the reliefs would have considered "mail" to be the correct term for scale armour.
FWIW bronze mail is perfectly functional. The metal may need to be annealed more often than iron but it was made. IRC there are several surviving Persian mail shirts dating to around the 5th century AD.
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Wed 31 Jan, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: |
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I'd also like someone to explain to me how a person can look at a stone carving and know what type of metal a particular item being depicted is made from.
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Max von Bargen
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| Posted: Wed 31 Jan, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Dan Howard wrote: | | I'd also like someone to explain to me how a person can look at a stone carving and know what type of metal a particular item being depicted is made from. |
I thought that was pretty strange too. Thanks very much for the input, Dan.
Max
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Douglas G.
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| Posted: Wed 31 Jan, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at the Assyrian reliefs I don't see "maille" at all, rather a brigandine type garment or one of studded hide
more likely. But as always I envy those beards!
Doug G.
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Thu 01 Feb, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely no studded armour. The Assyrians used iron scale extensively. The scales were laced onto the foundation, not riveted. Some claim that they invented lamellar. This is not true.
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This is a standard topic
