[Thomas McDonald]

Checkout this Scottish baskethilted backsword on West Steet Antiques site.

Item: C199 Walter Allan Backsword
Category: Swords
Description:
A Fine & Very Rare Scottish Backsword. 32 ½” blade with top fuller, signed within ‘Andria Farara’. The hilt of rounded bars & panels, the latter with chiselled decoration & pierced with circles & hearts. Domed pommel, with chiselled lines. Fish skin grip. The underside marked ‘W.A.S.’. – Walter Allan of Stirling. C1740 Above good condition for age.
Price: £7995

What do you guys think .... is it a genuine Walter Allan of Stirling baskethilt ?

The makers signature stamp looks a little crude compared to others I've seen by this famous maker, and although very nice the hilt seems a tad plain & unadorned of decoration that is the usual trademark of this artist.
(Although I am in no way saying that West Street is misrepresenting this one, as they are a repected dealer of arms & armour, but I would be curious as to its provenance, if known ? ... and it could indeed be the work of Mr. Walter Allan ?)


There are a few other new antique baskethilts for sale there as well !

Mac

[GG Osborne]

MAc....

If it is genuine, Walter was having a really, really bad day! Could it have been made by a journeyman and stamped with the "shop" mark? Have you eber encountered that situation before?

George

[David Wilson]

I was prepared to say "Sure, why not" until I saw that stamping. That's very sloppy; it doesn't look like a real Walter Allen stamp to me....

[Thomas McDonald]

[Thomas McDonald]

[Jonathan Hopkins]

Why would a modern forger or maker of spurious marks not take the time to align the initials? Tp make it look more authentic? I will have to look through what scant information I have on signed basket to see that the initials "should" look like....

Jonathan

[Jonathan Hopkins]

It looks like the initials are properly located, minus the A which has worn away(?). Here is a sample from Mazansky:

[Lin Robinson]

[GG Osborne]

Generally, the makers mark appears on the same place on virtually all of the basket hilts regardless of maker. In this case, the "strike" shown in Mazansky differs from those on Mac's illustration. The "S" for example is longer and narrower. This could be a trick of the protograph, however. My point is that the sword just doesn't appear to have the overall quality one usually associates with a Walter Allen. Now in Caldwell's "Scottish Weapons & Fortification," Charper 16 'Letters to Thomas Gemmell from Walter Allen,' it mentions in several places the rush being put on Allen to produce swords that were ordered in bulk from patrons. This seems to be in comparison to his "fussing" at his cousin Gemmill to finish some fine silver fittings for hilts and scabbards. Based on this (admittedly) scant piece of evidence, I have to wonder if there really weren't two Walter Allens? No, not physically two separate people, but one the craftsman and one the contractor. The WAlter Allen's we have come to know and prize being products for individuals and items such as the one Mac illustrated being products of his shop made by employees to fill orders for multiple swords. Did Walter actually make every hilt that left his shop? Or did some of the bulk orders carry his "logo" but made by others under his supervision? Hard to say, but if the iullustrated basket is a "genuine" Walter Allen, it does make me wonder a bit.

[Martin Wilkinson]

Maybe it's a really early Walter Allen, so he didn't quite have the skill he later had?

[Lin Robinson]

[GG Osborne]

Hey gang.... Take a close look at the markings. Am I seeing things or does the "A" seem to have been obliterated? The other stamps are clear but it deinfitly looks like someone took the effoty to erase the "A". Am I seeing things?

[E.B. Erickson]

Think I'll throw out a different hypothesis. I think that the W and A have been restamped: note that the W looks a lot like two Vs close together. The A is a disaster. Why restamp? Perhaps because the W and A were too worn and faint, so someone decided to refresh things a bit, but botched the job. Note that the S looks pretty good. This assumes that the hilt is a real WA, and not the product of another Stirling maker.

If this is a real WA, it's possibly an earlier one, because it doesn't have the pommel ring that is just about standard on his hilts.

I'm not too put off by the lack of quality, as we tend to judge WA's work by what we're most familiar with, most of which are his high-end hilts.

Just some thoughts; toss them around!

--ElJay

[Thomas McDonald]

Here is an example of Walter's signature stamp on the Lochiel silver hilt that he did in collaboration with goldsmith Colin Mitchell.

* Photo 1 - "Scottish Weapons & Fortifications 1100-1800" by David Caldwell
* Photo 2 - "Culloden The Swords & The Sorrows", National Trust For Scotland, 1996.

Mac
Edit: It's quite possible that Colin Mitchell stamped Walters signature as the strike looks different than Walter's usual and rather similar in style to Mitchells .... but who knows ?

[Henrik Bjoern Boegh]

Mac,
Thanks for sharing! An interesting piece. I'd personally like to believe that it is a real Walter Allan, but with the state of the signature I'm inclined to doubt it. Yet it is a very attractive sword!
I'm particularily fond of the fluting, the side panels, and the ram's horns.

Cheers,
Henrik

[Thomas McDonald]

Vince mentioned to me that .... "Walter did some plain hilts.There's one in Kelvingrove and I believe one in the Marischal Museum in Aberdeen. I can't remember if the one in Dean Castle is also a plain hilt."

Mac

[George Hill]

[Thomas McDonald]