[Eric Johanen]

First post from a new member. I've been collecting swords for close to 30 years and in college participated in modern fencing, later taught and coached a university fencing club for several years until job changes forced me to drop out. Continued to maintain my interest , just dormant for a while. Last year I decided to get back into fencing although with a historical bent and started to explore the Italian rapier. Picked up some excellent books and a pair of practice rapiers from Darkwood Armory ( Scott Wilson makes a very nice trainer). I,m progressing slowly with my main concentration on footwork and proper timing with hand and foot. Similar to my earlier practice but allowing for nonlinear movement and single time actions. Recently, I've been studying Silver in a volume "English Swordsmanship" by Mr. Stephan Hand and based on a review by Bill Goodwin on the CAS/Hanwei Cromwell mortuary hilt backsword I obtained one for my training. I do like it and the design, weight, blade length, and appearence with an affordable price make it a very nice trainer for me. This is my first experience with a sword from this manufacturer and since I am also involved with reenacting French and Indian War and Rev War, I've been thinking in obtaining the SH2002N antiqued Basket Hilt Broadsword. My question for those who have reworked these is, what is the proceedure to dismount the hilt? I am thinking of removing the existing finish, doing any detail clean up, browning the hilt and pommel and using it with out the basket liner to field it as an older sword put back into battle again. I've looked at middle to high end basket hilt swords but for this usage, I believe this sword will fill the bill nicely. Experience and suggestions with this project would be of use.

[David Wilson]

[Eric Johanen]

Thanks for the reply Dave. Two reasons have me interested in the antiqued model: I like the brown scabbard and darkened mounts opposed to the black leather and bright mounts and I am assuming a bit of file work to clean up the hilt piercings. I am planning to remove the basket liner and tassel from the hilt anyway so the "work involved " does not pose a real problem.

[GG Osborne]

One note: I used this basket hilt as the basis for my Turchail project. Seemingly, the basket is made of an alloy that will not take standard "antiquing". My guess is that it is actually stainless steel since it is non-magnetic. Regardless, repeated attempts to use a solution of vinigar and salt had abolsutely no effect on the finish. If I had it to do over again, I would buy the browned version and lightly steel wool it until I had the desired effect. Also, the scabbard is a fiberglass mold covered in leather. An interesting anomaly is that the scabbard locket is on the wrong side of the scabbard, i.e. it faces the seam rather than on the "smooth" side. I managed to turn it around by applying heat to the locket with a torch, melting the glue and removing it, but it was tough to replace since the fiberglass scabbard has a piece of leather on the inside to disguise the fiberglass and this makes it hard to replace everything. Also, as with most commercially made swords, the blade is heavy. A little time and patience with a belt sander and 6-9 ozs of metal dust on the floor would do it no harm. Good luck!

[William Goodwin]

Just quickly.....

First.....welcome Eric......
Secondly.......like the the Cromwell ....eh?
Third....... doing Silver? Would have thought maybe to go with the practical CAS/Hanwei Mortuary or even the #2004 sharp version for that.....

Last.....Good luck on your Scottish basket-hilt project................

Anyway......another "Mortuary" fan is always a plus...........

Cheers,

Bill

[Chad Arnow]

[Eric Johanen]

Thank you for the information and welcome. I believe stainless can be browned or darkened and some experimentation would be in order. Based on the Hanwei Cromwell it appears to be a painted finish applied to the hilt and pommel. The fiberglass core for the scabbard would not be a problem for reenacting. It is a light weight core, not bulky and proportional to the hilt. The hook on the reverse (seam side) of the latchet is historically correct and was used on swords prior to the mid 1700's The Cromwell scabbard is so constructed. It allows for a very clean appearance of the face of the frog for tooling and carving or covering with embellished fabric. I have some very thick buff moose hide that I've used for frogs in the past and it looks very good with a scabbard and black or dark brown leather for the shoulder straps. GG, how did you dismount the hilt to work over the blade? Are the Hanwei pommels threaded on? Did you finish the blade with emery paper and oil stones to restore the polish? Did you reduce the thickness and the width of the blade to get to weight you perfered? Yes, Bill, a Cromwell for training. I just liked the appearance and proportions of the sword. The price is right and if it begins to look a bit bedraggled, I can refinsh the hilt along the lines of the planned basket hilt project. Just beginning to study George Silver's technique. Foot work is familiar, with the guards and attack positions different from "rapier" to safely allow emphasis on cut & thrust rather than thrust & cut employment of the weapon. I am not considering using the Cromwell for bouting, only for solo practice to develop proper technique and time of hand and foot. I'll probably end up with something from Darkwood Armory for actual bouting. I really do like ring hilt "rapiers", pappenheimers, "mortuary" hilt swords and if pressed, smallswords. I do enjoy the range of topics presented here and the amount of information provided by the participants.

[GG Osborne]

Yes, the pommel cap is threaded. It is a dome-type (very plain as is the basket itself) and the pommel cap nut is cast as one piece with the pommel cap itself. It is about a 1/4 x 30 thread. So, yes, you can imagine the tang is reduced to a corresponding threaded rod about 3" long. It is very easy to disassemble although you have to destroy the basket liner (no great loss!) to remove it. I used a leather strip and a pair of wire pliers.

As for the blade, since I was after a basket-hilted saber style (called a "Turk" by the Scots), I have the blade lying in the scrap pile waiting for some more inspiration. I used a Cold Steel 1796 sabel blade for the Turchial and removed approximately 3/8" from the spine and ground the flat out a bit, maybe 1/64" each side to remove weight and improve the appearence. I also ground another fuller in the blade (again to remove as much excess weight as possible). The blade was left in a bit of a rough state, meaning I antiqued it with my trusty vinigar and salt concoction applied with a fine-mist spray bottle and cleaned it up with a fine grit sanding sponge (my weapon of choice for such projects.) The blade came out fine as far as I'm concerned. It is not perfect and certainly not a professional job but it *looks* right and, more to the point *feels* right in the hand. I described the feeling to my friend Henrick as it "wanting to reach out and take a deep slice out of someone or something!" Finally, I had the grip redone by Mike McRay of Scotia Metalwork as the rayskin Hanwei uses is so polished it has no texture or feel left in it at all.

As to your point, no, I didn't polish the blade. I wanted an "old" look and just wiped it down with an oily rag after the antiquing process to stop further rusting.

As I opined before, if I had it to do again, I would buy the browned (blued?) basket and - after "doctoring "it up with some additional engraving and fluting - would rub it down with the trusty sponge until it was worn.

As to the locket being on the inside, I just like'em on the outside where the scabbard can be removed easily without the trouble of removing the baldric.

If anyone has some suggestion of antiquing SS, I would like to know of it.

By the way, if anyone needs a broadsword blade and scabbard...........

[Eric Johanen]

Thanks for the reply. Just the information I was after. I believe I'll go ahead with the plan and order the sword. Dismount the hilt and work out the modifications, and if the blade is on the heavy side will remove a bit of steel to get it down to a useable weight. Clean up the blade and age it just a little bit to give the appearance of use/age. Make the baldric black or dark brown with brass buckle, keeper, and tip. Cut a frog from the buff moose hide and see what it looks like with my civilian "kit" and light fusil on muster day.

[Henrik Bjoern Boegh]

Hi all,

I think there is one very easy way in which one can get the stainless steel basket hilt of the CasIberia/Hanwei browned. Throw it in your stove! Just look at this post from the SFI: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t...asket+hilt

If you get one of the "japanned" practical basket hilts from Hanwei, the basket allready has a browned finish if you strip the paint.

Cheers,
Henrik

[GG Osborne]

Thanks, Henrik...as always a fount of practical information. Now if I only had a woodstove or fireplace! Wonder if a propane torch would have the same effect?

[Henrik Bjoern Boegh]

George,

Will you make an attempt with your torch?
If you have the possibility, you can just make a small outdoor fire and just put the hilt into it... I believe that would have much the same effect as throwing it into the woodstove.

Cheers,
Henrik

[Bob Burns]

Having bought Stephen Hand's fantastic new book "English Swordsmanship" recently, it became a decided necessity that I have a mortuary sword. So I drove the half hour over to Kult of Athena today and also bought the the
Paul Chen / Hanwei Cromwell Mortuary Backsword, but I sharpened the distal false edge as I wanted it sharp to and fro on the distal foot or so of the blade. Very nice sword for the money! $339.15 ! Just can't beat that price for this sword, plus being that I am so gratefully lucky to be so close to the store, I don't have to pay any shipping.

I never had that much of an interest in mortuary swords until I bought Stephen Hand's book and then I just had to have a mortuary sword! Like Eric Johanen, I really like this sword considering the price. There is some life in this blade.

Cheers!
Bob

[William Goodwin]

So glad to see all you folks interested in the mortuary sword.......more troops for the cause.

I'm presently in th UK trying to gather a bit more research on Cromwell & the mortuary sword. Heading up to Huntingdon on Weds. to pay a visit to the Cromwell Museum and hopelfuly have a chat with the curator.

The CAS Cromwell has grwon more on me as well. The more I do test cutting with it, the more I like it.


Cheers,

Bill

[Nathan Keysor]

A propane torch works just fine. I've used it on a few helmets to darken them. I've also just set small pieces on the burner of an electric stove. It will turn stainless form a yellow to a peacock color depending how long it is on there. Just make sure you have a pair of tongs ready to pick it up

[Eric Johanen]

I'm late on my update. Went back and forth on the bright/antiqued stlye of the basket hilt and finally decided on the bright to go with the contemporary look of the mid eighteenth century , matching the rest of my F&I to Rev War kit. ( Brown Bess and carbine are both bright with patina from use and bright bayonets). Ended up removing the cloth basket liner and making a pad of red deer skin to the front and buff deer skin to the pommel side of the guard. I cut up an old pair of felt booties to get the padding. Looks really nice and gives me the open look to the basket that I wanted. The dark brown leather of the baldric with the buff moose frog really looks good with the bright hilt and black scabbard with bright mounts. Recieved many favorable comments at a local event over the Memorial Day holliday. I did have a chance to look over and handle several other low end priced basket hilts and I am pleased the my choice. These were all very heavy in both hilt and blade with most going well over 4 pounds. Prices ranged from around 100 to 250 making the price I paid very reasonable. Many commented that they really liked the weight of the sword and the way it handled compared to their swords. Sharpened the edges a bit more than the factory edge and will do a bit of cutting in the future. The baldric came out very nice with the hang of the sword perfect! I did spend a bit of time fooling with it to get it just right. Got talked in to making two more for friends and also have to make one for the Cromwell. As Bob said the Cromwell is very nice, feels good in the hand and moves well. I also sharpened the edges of mine a bit for cleaner cutting with forehand and backhand. All who handled it really liked that sword. I will purchace another to blunt and round the tip for practicing Silver's english swordmanship and use this one for reenacting purposes. If one is looking for swords in this price range to use for reenacting these should be considered. They could easily be blunted for those organizations that have this requirement.

[Bob Burns]

I too, like Eric, like having the distal false edge sharpened, was a bit of filing and honing with stones to get it there, but having the blade sharp for to and fro was a strong personal desire. Incidentally, I also did this to my Albion Vassal, sure hope Peter Johnsson and the fine swordsmiths at Albion do not mind!
I was really surprised at the quality of the blade on the Cromwell Backsword, it has a beautiful feel to it while executing
cuts and thrusts to cardboard boxes and plastic jugs.
This is my first mortuary sword and I sure do like it!

Cheers!

Bob