[Jeff Hughes]

Hello all I'm new here and would like some advise

me and some friends are planning to make period outfits for next years company Halloween party. i am doing a 11-1200 century Templar. i have done some research but i am still uncertain about a few things.some back ground first. so far i am weaving a 4-1 euro chain mail coif and will be able to start my shirt mid February. i plan on using a Norman style conical nasal helm. but i have seen pictures depicting several types of helms at once. i figured this is due to transition points in armor for the age. i will also be making a surcaot and cape from natural colored duck cotton aka. off white/sand. i also be making a wooden arming sword since no weapons allowed at work. and a shield. now for the questions

1. the helm for this period great helm,conical or sugar loaf.
2. the sword a wood replica of http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...lar-xa.htm
3. the shield heater, Norman kite or tear drop kite
4. gloves mail, other or none
i hope these are not redundant questions here. i am just having trouble dating certain item since the references i have seen have seem to have a mix , are not date or dates overlap from one to the next.

thanks in advance

[Eric Allen]

If you are putting so much effort into your costume that you're starting making it in January, Wow.

For what its worth, there's an Osprey book ("Knight Templar 1120-1312" by Helen Nicholson, part of the Warrior Series) that covers the period you are trying to emulate.

If you're going for the earlier part of the timeframe you gave, a surcoat may not be the most appropriate, but instead a white cappa (for your purposes, make a surcoat, and add simple sleeves). Some evidence indicate the Templars did not wear sleeveless surcoats until 1240 A.D.

As to your specific questions:

[Jared Smith]

You have picked a date range where helmets and mail coverage changed quite a bit. The triangular shield appeared to displace the round shield during this century as well. Since the Templar hisotry spans most of the 12th century, you have some latitude, but may want to match the ensemble to either early or later century practices.

Great helms would be near the very end of the century or early in the 13th century, but can be justified based on some known seals (1190's) as existing prior to 1200. Conic nasal helms and even no helm (mail coif) would be believable throughout the century. The Sugarloaf became more commonly known much later in the next century. It probably does not fit your choice of period.

Mail coverage increased during the 12th century, with complete coverage "of the better equipped knights" including mittens and stockings down to the foot being described in writing by the 1180's. This does not have to be universal, but would be cool and appropriate if you can manage it.

There are illustrations of triangular shields during the second half of the 12th century. Round shileds were universal at the end of the 11th century and can be argued as more appropriate for the beginning of the 12th century. If you can not afford the complete coverage of mail down to the hands and feet, Great Helm, and other later period items you could go with the round shield and partial mail as a kit representing the earlier part of the century.

Hope this helped.

[Jeff Hughes]

well alot of good info that has helped and as for cost issue on mail it mostly time the wire i use to make links runs about $26 for about 18000 rings / so a full suit would cost about 150 - 200. and one ? on mittens i saw a picture forget were but showed mittens with a 2 inch weaving on the palm side of wrist that hinged it into the shirt anyone have examples of this i can reference. i will have to look into how to make the leggings. but if time allows i plan on full on outfit. i want it somewhat nice since it will be displayed on a maniquen in my den when i'm done. after recieving a few nice pictures i may make a second shield,sword and surcoat of the hospitaler ilk.

can anyone tell me the basic thickness of a 7.5 inch type 3 guard
sent my wife to the library to get every book she can find from Oakeshott

thanks again