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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > An Interesting short bladed, shell hilted Italian sword Reply to topic
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Mike W




Location: Michigan
Joined: 11 Jan 2006

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 10 Dec, 2006 8:43 pm    Post subject: An Interesting short bladed, shell hilted Italian sword         Reply with quote

I was poking around and found this Italian infantry sword online at an auction (Czerny's International Auction House if i recall, but I'm not positive.) I saved the photos but didn't think much of them at the time. The more I look at this thing, the more intrigued I am. The only thing i could understand in the description was "Italian," but i assume it is 16-17th century. I was wondering if these straight bladed, broad, complex hilted swords are common at all? I also think the blade is a backsword type with a half sharpened backedge, but wanted to see what more informed eyes thought. Finally, is there any maker who produces anything similar to this style, especially the blade type?
Thanks,
Mike



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infantryclamshell1.jpg
Full view. I wish there were some more detialed pictures of the blade.

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infantryclamshell2.jpg
It almost looks like an arms and sidering hilt modified with a clamshell in this view.

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infantryclamshell3.jpg
The fullers are shifted to one side in this picture which makes me think it is a backsword blade
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Dec, 2006 9:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like a side sword, I think, though the side sword may have a narrower blade?

Certianly looks to be about 16th century style to my untrained eye (Renesance style). As for who makes them these days I don't know but certianly am interested in knowing myself.

M.
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Dec, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

According to Czerny's Web site, this sword is a "infantry sword, Venice, 16th century". I am particularly fond of this type of hilt and am happy to have you share it here. Thank you!
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Kjell Magnusson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 10 Jun 2004

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Mon 11 Dec, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

While not too similar, the "straight bladed, broad, complex hilted swords"-part made me think of the Swedish m/1653 sword for infantry troopers. Looking through "Svenska Blankvapen del II" by Olof Berg, it seems that a few somewhat similar swords were around during that time, if not actual adopted models, though only one of those pictured is as short and broad as the m/1653.


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m1653.jpg
Digital camera instead of a scanner, quality accordingly.

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From http://www.probusauktioner.se/index.asp [ Download ]
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Mike W




Location: Michigan
Joined: 11 Jan 2006

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon 11 Dec, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I did some quick math ,estimating the length of the hilt from guard to pommel and using that in proportions, and the blade ended up at about the same size. Would these sorts of sidearms be useful in something like the packed pike formations?

Mike
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Washington DC metro area, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Dec, 2006 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: An Interesting short bladed, shell hilted Italian sword         Reply with quote

Mike W wrote:
... I also think the blade is a backsword type with a half sharpened backedge, but wanted to see what more informed eyes thought. ....
To address your specific question - yes - that is exactly what the blade looks like to me. A feature that reinforces that impression is shown in one of the photos - there seem to be three sets of parallel markings, two sets in the twin fullers and another set and an incised line close to the back of the blade. Nice looking example - thanks for posting it!
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Mike W




Location: Michigan
Joined: 11 Jan 2006

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon 25 Dec, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm thinking of having something along the lines of this particular piece reproduced- as soon as i can find sufficient money. I am admittedly new to the custom market, and was wondering if there were any makers who either specialized in this sort of form, or were interested in similar things- so as to let the artist do the painting so to speak.
Thanks, and happy holidays,
Mike
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Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Dec, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good luck with your project Mike. That's a beautiful sword and I'd love to see it recreated.
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J. Pav




Location: NJ
Joined: 05 Oct 2006

Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon 25 Dec, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This sword is absolutely gorgeous...

But I notice a few things.

The hilt itself is generally one found on a thrusting swords (smallsword, rapier). Particularly the exposed-tang form of ricasso.
Additionally, that ricasso itself is rather uneven. Notice the edges are not completely parralel. Somewhat crude.

The blade is rather wide-looking for a thrusting sword, and doesnt appear to have a thrust-geared tip. Looks to me like an effective cutter.

Considering all these observations, I would think that this backsword was cut down and modified, rehilted much later in its life.
Anyone with me?
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Mike W




Location: Michigan
Joined: 11 Jan 2006

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue 26 Dec, 2006 2:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is entirely possible that it is a cut down backsword blade. However, the hilt type that is generally assumed to be a rapier hilt carried a wide variety of blades including cut and thrust types. A good example would be A&A's Dresdan Rapier, which I would consider a cut and thrust. The only evidence i can find to the contrary of the blade being cut down is the etching on the ricasso being centered, but i suppose that could have been added later as well. I'd love to hear other opinions, as my own expirence with antiques is limited. Speaking of later additions, it looks to me as though the clamshell may have been added at a later time, due to the ends of the hilt rings looking like they were cut off. Again, this is merely speculation as my understanding of antiques is admittedly limited.
Mike
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