Need project advice--medieval helmet -- myArmoury.com

Sean Flynt

I have an old civil defense helmet of the type shown below (photo from a current ebay auction). I'd rather have a mid-late 15th c. "kettle" type infantry helmet. In theory, I just need to strip the paint down to the bare, bright steel and make a new liner and chin strap to convert one to the other. But would the overall form be appropriate for the period? All I'm seeing are the type with reinforced bowls and separate brims. Seems like the one-piece design of the CD helmet would be simpler, if not necessarily as strong. Before I proceed, I need to see some good examples of the 15th c. helmet type. Does anybody know of such--antiques, artwork or repros? I've seen the BestArmour kettlehats and sifted through the fora here, but no luck yet. Period artwork is especially welcome. If the form won't work for this period, but would for a later period, I'd like to know that as well. Any advice?

Thanks!

Michal Plezia · Industry Professional

Try here
http://www.bagrit.pl/artykuly/artykuly.php?ar...25&k=1

http://www.bagrit.pl/artykuly/artykuly.php?ar...00&k=1 second part-unfortunately in polish...

there are some drowings that may help

In my opinion 15century kettle hats had different bell shapes than civil defense helmet...(for egzample central 'rib' )

Here are some reproductions.
http://www.tomala.lublin.pl/index.php?strona=...mp;lng=eng

I have half of my armour including helmet made by Tomasz Samuła and it is good enough for heavy unstaged battles Wink

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 11 Dec, 2006 9:02 am Post subject:

Great resources, Michal! Thanks!

This one actually isn't too far removed (for my use, anyway).

Michal Plezia · Industry Professional

Oh yes-this one can be made..probably.Maybe several hits with hammer and that nice top will appear ...but you have to ask someone experienced with armour making.

James Barker · Posted: Mon 11 Dec, 2006 11:22 am Post subject:

CD helms are pressed to shape so the metal is easy to tear open if you work it cold, best thing to do is hammer it hot if you can. There is a fellow I know who cut the brim off, added a center ridge, added large roundels, and added neck scales to look just like some helmets you see in King Rene's book or tournement.

Michael Mercier · Posted: Mon 11 Dec, 2006 11:44 am Post subject:

I know its not exactly what you wanted, but I antiqued my civil defense helmet a couple years ago. This is the before and after.

If you are interested in knowing the aging technique Sean, drop me a PM.

Mike

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 11 Dec, 2006 11:57 am Post subject:

Is yours based on any particular original type, Michael?

Bruno Giordan

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 11 Dec, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject:

If I do this at all, I won't do any working of the metal apart from drilling holes for the new lining/rivets. I just want to get as close to an original design as, say, MRL does with its helmets. This would just be a shelf piece--a way to get this helmet out of a box and on display.

Jean Thibodeau

Merv Cannon · Posted: Mon 11 Dec, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: kETTLE HELMS

Hi ............ Some of the guys at our annual big rrmedieval event had helms which looked quite close to authentic types. They said they were ...I think..... Bulgarian Army helms. They looked great because they had Three centeral ridges ........actually, they might have been French now that I think about it. Here in Oz theres an e-Bay store called Red Corner Galleria and they sell them for about A$40 . You might find that some of the East European helmets are far closer to medieval shape than western types. As everything over here seems to cost a lot of muney, you should get these East Europren helms a lot cheaper.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 21 Dec, 2006 7:46 am Post subject:

Another thread on this subject turned up this very helpful illustration from the Companie of St. George. Full text of Dragon #5 is here: http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/dragon-5.pdf

Jean-Carle Hudon · Posted: Thu 21 Dec, 2006 8:14 am Post subject:

Sean,
good luck with your project. I had a similar thought years ago, as some of our old canadian equipment evoked the same time frame, the old tommy helmets which were still in use in WWII, very different lines than the US or german helmets. I abandonned when I realized that the alloy used could not be worked like steel, way to hard and brittle, great for deflecting high velocity rounds....as for simply giving it a paint job, well it ended up looking like a modern helmet with a paint job.
Now your civil defense model is closer in its' lines to what you wish to emulate, so maybe you have a better shot at it than I did with the british/canadian model. Who knows, maybe cd helms are softer and won't chew up as many drill bits when you try to add a few rivets for appearances sake. Have fun.
Jean-Carle

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

I had the same expirience as Jean years back. What I had told to me at several gun shows where I related the story was that the better steel went to making gun and artillery barrels, and that a lower grade steel was used on helmets. What they did was paint the helmet with a case hardening paste ( this stuff is still around. Its sometimes used on farms when bladed field equipment gets worn down. The edge is reground and then this paste is applied and heated to red hot and allowed to cool. The paste case hardens the surface) heat it to red hot and allow it to cool. Once applied it won't anneal so its always that hard. Wheather its an old gunshowers tale or not I don't know but the paste does exist, a buddy of mine married into a farm family and they have and use it. McMaster Carr used to carry it.

Brenton Hudson · Posted: Thu 21 Dec, 2006 9:22 am Post subject:

Just a bit of trivial information, any type of helmet that covered the face regardless of whether it had a visor or not, was called a helm. Those that didn't cover the face were called helmets.

Kevin Inouye · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2007 11:39 am Post subject:

Interesting- I've got the exact same helmet, and have been trying to do the exact same thing. So far I've got it sanded down to bare metal, but haven't done anything else yet. Had thought about adding a brass strip down the centerline and maybe along the rim just to dress it up...

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2007 11:54 am Post subject:

When I finally get around to this project, I'll just use Citrus Strip and a sanding sponge (hopefully that's all it'll take). Then I'll make a new band and liner from a Goodwill belt and chamois. Nails for rivets. Remains of the belt will serve as chin strap, as in the illustration above. Might make a simple buckle like the one shown below. I want the piece to look good, but I'm not a stitch counter. This is going to sit on a shelf until my son, due in August, has a head and imagination big enough to wear it years from now.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject:

Notice the man standing at far left in this photo from the Company of St. George's gallery:
http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/images/pi...tated.jpeg

That's the look I'm aiming for. Judging from the CSG's helmet illustrations shown above, I'm guessing this would be Burgundian, late 15th c. The CSG site is amazing, by the way. Don't miss it. http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/index_1.phtml

Lin Robinson · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: