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Craig Masters





Joined: 08 Dec 2006

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2006 10:12 pm    Post subject: question about a sword         Reply with quote

if any one can give me any information on this sword i would greatly apreciate it. year? russian?


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Gordon Frye




Location: Kingston, Washington
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Reading list: 15 books

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks to be a Russian Imperial-era Dragoon sabre, from the late-19th or early 20th Centuries, or a Turkish copy there-of.

Cheers!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Reading list: 13 books

Posts: 1,081

PostPosted: Sun 17 Dec, 2006 3:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, a Russian shashqa, or cavalry saber, likely from before or right around WWI as it lacks the secondary bevel the later models were saddled with; a friend of mine owns one of these from 1917-18 (the hilt is a year older than the blade), originally commissioned for a dragoon regiment in southern Finland, and it's one of the most graceful and sweetest-handling swords I've ever met.

If this one is actual Russian issue, there should be a year of manufacture stamped on the knuckleguard and the blade, and possibly unit markings stamped on the guard. However, the way the sharpened edge blends into the shoulder of the blade doesn't seem quite authentic to me - in the ones I've seen first-hand, the edge stops very neatly and abruptly about an inch below the guard. The fuller also looks too wide in its upper half, and narrows too acutely, IMO. And it seems to me the pommel/cap lacks detail.

All just AFAIK; I'm no expert, really. And there were differences between sub-contractors that could mean I'm talking right out of my rear end.

If there's a scabbard with it, seeing that might also help.

"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Dennis Zlat





Joined: 25 Oct 2006

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun 17 Dec, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

According to Russian typology, this particular saber is shashka (don’t ask me why). This one is “the dragoon troopers’ p. [from] 1881 shashka (shasque)” It was in use even after 1917.
If I not wrong it has to have certain characteristics: overall length is about 1.050 mm, the blade’s length is about 870 mm, and the blade’s width is below 33 mm.
In the period from 1881 -1888, scabbard had the additional bayonet placement.
If you show the scabbard, I can tell you more precise year.
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Dec, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russian alright, I have one. Where you have a circle c, mine is marked 1917. The hilt above on this side has a cyrillic marking, underligned with the year 1908. The hilt on the other side is marked in three places with A, one of which has a crown. The blade on this other side is marked with a capital A, an A with a crown and the number 40. The brass on the scabbard also sports the same capital A, but with the number 14 near the ring. It seems to be some form of lacquered wood, but I am really not sure of that. I don't think it is leather covered as there is absolutely no seem visible to the naked eye.
The same model can be seen in a famous painting by Woodville showing the Charge of The Light Brigade, where a russian dragoon is going at one of the cherry pickers. I once saw this model referred to as the sabre issued to russian Dragoon, or light cavalry, units, whereas the shashqua would not have the knuckle guard, and would be more typical of the Cossack regiments. Mine is still sharp after all these years.
I picked it up in an antique shop in Montreal in the late 70's. I think it probably comes from the estate of some fellow who served with the canadian expeditionary forces to Russia at the end of the first world war. Similar models were used by the Reds also, but they marked theirs with the hammer and sickle. I figure that mine must have been of white russian provenance, either brought in by a canadian soldier or possibly later by a russian émigré.
I don"t know about turkish knock-offs, so I can't comment on that possibility.
It handles well, but is clearly a horseman's tool.
Jean-Carle

Bon coeur et bon bras
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