Need help with authentic 14th -16th century irish weaponry -- myArmoury.com

Michael Russell

Hi,
I am a quarter Irish, and I would like to go to the RenFair in 14th - 16th century Irish arms and armour. I'm finding that a lot of the things that I find aren't even close to authentic. Many writings say that they fought with LONG swords, but archeological finds show the blades to be only 18 inches. Please help... I want to find what true irishmen brought to battle, and represent that with pride. I don't want to be another one who buys into the marketing and does discredit to my ancestors. Thank you...

Travis Canaday · Posted: Tue 05 Dec, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject:

Albion is your best best bet if you want something historically accurate. Check out their sword, the Gallowglass here:

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...rd-xix.htm

It's exspensive, but you won't find anything better short of going custom. If you do a search, you'll find a discussion about it around here some where.

I hope this helps....

Michael Russell · Posted: Tue 05 Dec, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject: I wonder

I wonder if the Irish weren't so heavily influenced by the Scotts at the time that there armour and weapons were not very similar. It seems everyone is interested in Scottish weaponry, but not so much Irish. I like the Gallowglass... I have to get my county kilt... assuming they wore them at the time, but all the pics depict them as such. Thank you for your help. I hope more people respond, and I am going to continue my research. Perhaps I should just go buy a book... apparently the internet does not have EVERYTHING on it. Still, I value your responses. Thanks again...

Travis Canaday · Posted: Tue 05 Dec, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject:

I believe the 14th and 15th centuries are a bit early for the kilt.... especially the small kilt. Generally I think the scots and the irish were a bit behind the times as far as arms and armour went. Probably because of their isolation and the people weren't as wealthy. I am not sure though, and there are people here who can probably tell you a lot more.

You might want to check out Tim Newark's book Celtic Warriors. It has some neat pictures of irish warriors, but I can't say how accurate the depictions are. It shows them wearing chainmail and linen tunic-like garments with long droopy sleeves. You can see what I mean when you look at the cover here:

http://www.amazon.com/Celtic-Warriors-400Bc-A...=books[/u]

This is supposed to be during the mid 1500's.

Merv Cannon · Posted: Tue 05 Dec, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: Irish Kit

Hi Michael...........I'm a quarter Irish too.........I like Irish gear and Scottish too and a heap of other groups and periods. I gotta express right here my frustration at the little amount of Irish research available both on and off the web ! Anyway, I'll post what links I have......thank God for Niall Murray and his Na Degad site ! here .... http://www.geocities.com/na_degad/ ...... I was gonna post the same old Durer print of the Irish dudes but I just couldnt bring myself to bother as it must have been posted hundreds of times now. The other resource is the same old drawings by William Drummond of Hawthornden (1585-1649) ..." The Image of Ireland " here..... http://www.lib.ed.ac.uk/about/bgallery/Galler...mmond.html ......its like there are only these two items on the entire web !!! WTF?!

And of course you can glean some info here... http://livinghistory.ie/modules.php?name=Forums&file=index ...a great bunch of people, but you might have to be quite patient if you ask a question.
Here's the others.... http://www.irisharms.ie/ ( just for looking, they are too busy to sell you anything...I've tried ! )
also .... http://www.powning.com/jake/home/j_homepg.shtml and http://www.moghroith.org/ and http://members.tripod.com/Preachan/ ..........well, thats it from me....thats the sum total of seven years of web surfing and research that I have found for anything Irish thats worth looking at. If anyone wants to add to it, I'd be very happy to find some other data to look at ! There are some articles also at DeReMilitari .... http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/articles.htm I think you'll find that most of those short swords were very early finds. The later ones seem to be standard length and we see quite a few longswords...I might step out here and say we see more Irish longswords about in proportion to other countries......except mabye Germany in the same period. I also think they used the Irish Darts fairly late too. Rare paintings often show a decent length sword and a couple of darts tucked into the belt. Some of the sword scabbards are interresting....many seem to have leather tasseled fringes on the tip...Im told that some warriors didnt hold the sword by a belt but used to hand hold the sword and when unsheathing it, would step on the fringe and then pull the sword free.
I believe there are some amazing weapons and helmets and other gear in Irish history, but finding out is very hard. The Irish seem to be in the same boat as us, and living in Ireland doesent seem to be of a big advantage for reasons I wouldnt know about. If you look at the drawings by Drummond carfully, you'll see some very different looking Helmets.
Anyway........good luck...........you'll need it !
Cheers ! Cool

Merv Cannon · Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: Irish Gear

Ooops !! ....I forgot this great list by Sean Flynt....... http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ight=irish

David Wilson · Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: Re: I wonder

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject:

See my post in this thread as well:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...light=kern

This is specifcally about assembling a 16th c. Irish kit.

Basically, all you need is a tunic, three large arrowheads and three 48" poplar dowels. A simple dagger would help--the Irish skean is quite long, and that probably accounts for the "18 inch" figure you quoted. Check out Nathan Bell's:
http://www.myArmoury.com/nateb_dagg_ia_skean.html?3

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject:

By the way, MRL has just put this Irish sword on clearance for only $175! Lucky dog! It's based on the one shown in the artwork in the other thread I linked to.

http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/eCat/s...ander.aspx

Get this and a cheap burgonet, and suddenly you're a Gallowglass!