Recently Purchased Short Sword / Dagger -- myArmoury.com

Ronald Ryther

I am new to this forum / site, and have recently made my first purchase of a Short Sword / Dagger. I currently live in Germany, where I bought this item off of one of the locals who supplies the reinactment groups and Medieval Societies with battle ready weaponry and armor. I am curious as to what period the piece is modeled after, I am sure the weaponsmith could have told me but he didn't know English and I know very little German. It came with a one year warranty against breakage and has a full tang hilt (I gathered that from the literature around the tent). I have always been intrigued by the days long past and have done my geneological research, however I am just now arriving at a point in my life where I can start collecting pieces. Any way here are links to the pictures I took earlier this evening. Any help is much appriciated.

-Ron

I have a much better picture of the Pomel and Hilt but for some reason I couldn't get it to host... I will try again later.

J. Bedell · Posted: Sun 03 Dec, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject:

Ronald,
It looks like a 12th or 13th century sword. Thats about all I can really say, It is a nice looking weapon though.

Welcome to myArmoury!
-James

Merv Cannon · Posted: Sun 03 Dec, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: Analace sword

I might be wrong here, but it looks like a version of an " Anelace"......a short dagger-sword as described here.....

........" Like the earlier Coustille, the Anelace was a weapon that filled the void between the dagger and short sword. Contemporary to the Italian Cinquedea, the Anelace was often carried at an angle at the small of the back and would be the only weapon carried in cities, at court, traveling on horseback or riding during the hunt. This well balanced blade was of a size that one could use it to defend against a sword, but it could still pass as a dagger. "

This spiel is from "Museum Replicas Ltd." so I wouldnt cite it as entirely historically accurate without a book reference and you could certinally try asking them, but many of us have tried and never gotten a reply from them, even about buying their own products. To be honest, I dont know why Museum Replicas even bother having a web-site at all.

Anyway, I am sure that other forum members far more learnerd than myself could supply a more detailed reference and also might be able to supply us with historical details on the real 'Anelace' sword-daggers, if indeed this is what it is

Shamsi Modarai · Posted: Sun 03 Dec, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject:

Perhaps my degree in historical linguistics and literature might come in handy for once.(Or not... Wink

)

I believe that some kind of knife or short sword with that name was indeed historical, though whether it was designed exactly like those Museum Replica ones, I am not as certain. In the Prologue of The Canterbury Tales, Chaucer describes an "anlas and silken gipser" which hang at waist the rich Franklin. (Note that the Franklin wears this weapon while traveling upon his horse.)

Lines 357-361:

An anlas and a gipser al of silk
Heng at his girdel, whyt as morne milk.
A shirreve hadde he been, and a countour;
Was nowher such a worthy vavasour.

And just to be sure, I found a definition from my Middle English dictionary:

Anlas, sb. a kind of dagger, anlace, MD, C; anelace, HD; anelas, MD, NED.--Cp. Low Lat. anelacius (Ducange), OWelsh anglas.

Now, I realize that Chaucer was writing in the late 14th century, so this doesn't really have any bearing on the nature of the short sword in the photo, but I thought it was an interesting little tidbit nonetheless. Happy

Ronald Ryther · Posted: Mon 04 Dec, 2006 2:13 am Post subject: Dimensions for the Dagger

Overall length: 22.75"
Weight: 3.86pounds
Width of guard: 5"
Blade: 16.5" long, 1.75" wide at base
Grip and pommel: 6.25"
Point of Balance (PoB): @ guard
Has a black leather scabbard

I spoke with a guy who spoke a little better English about the dagger earlier and he told me it is a "Traditional Medieval Left Hand Dagger" primarily as quick defense when unarmed. He said to come back later and speak with the guy who actually speaks English. You guys have been loads of help and I will try and validate the Anlas theory.

Thanks;
-Ron

Steve Grisetti · Posted: Mon 04 Dec, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Dimensions for the Dagger

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Mon 04 Dec, 2006 7:36 am Post subject:

Shamsi Modarai · Posted: Mon 04 Dec, 2006 8:00 am Post subject:

Ronald Ryther · Posted: Mon 04 Dec, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject:

Sorry about that weight thing, that's not the actual weight of the piece...lol. I coppied the criteria out of the albums on this site and filled in all that I could, I just forgot to delete the weight. I am not sure of its weight as I can not get it to regiser on my house hold scale. It does have rather thick blunted edges, and its primary use as described by the vendor is as a "Battle Ready" weapon for reinactments and such. It can be sharpened if one desires. I was going to try and get with the vendor again but didn't have the chance to run back there today. I will hopefully get there this week so I can meet with the English speaking fellow who can give me some more information on this piece as well as the others they offer. Regardless I think it's a rather nice piece... although my knowledge is fairly limited.

-Ron

Ronald Ryther · Posted: Mon 04 Dec, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject:

Would this weapon be considered a Basilard? If so... what characteristics define it as such, and what period would it be from.... sorry for the redundancy, I am trying to learn as I go.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Mon 04 Dec, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject:

It just looks to me as a longer sword or sword type that was shortened or made shorter than normal without changing it's other proportions !?

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

An example of a type of baselard can be seen in our rondel dagger spotlight. Here is an image from that article:

Ballock dagger, baselard, quillon dagger, ear dagger, and rondel dagger

Bruno Giordan

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject:

Ronald Ryther · Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject:

The blade does have a distal taper according to the deffinition via the link in your post, it is thicker at the blade root v. the blade tip by a good majority. Either way I am not planning on using it for reinactments or any such venture, it is just the first piece I have purchased in what I hope will be a growing collection (the wife seems into it). I am just trying to find out what this dagger would be classified as, and what period it is modled after. If I got a bad deal on this piece then so be it, hence why I am trying to aquire further knowledge of such pieces.
-Ron

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject:

It looks sturdy and thoughtfully finished, and that's a heap better than many (most?) of us started with. The cross is very attractive. The wire binding looks very well done, but is more typical for later hilted arms (from the mid-16th c. forward). You'd be more likely to see a cord/leather wrap in this period, and that's easily done if you want a more period look. You could even just put a leather wrap over the wire. The tip of this dagger is truncated and rounded for safety, so it isn't really intended to be of historical design, but the fuller seems like a reasonable choice. Call it a quillon dagger in the medieval style and browse the features of this site to fill in the details. Check out this reproduction medieval dagger from A&A:

http://www.arms-n-armor.com/dagg130.html
(shown below as well)

Similar cross and grip shape, but with an appropriate blade profile and leather grip wrap. Your wheel pommel is fine, too. It's an Oakeshott type, and looking it up in our Oakeshott materials will help you suggest a date for your weapon.

Oh, and welcome to the money pit! Razz

Ronald Ryther · Posted: Thu 07 Dec, 2006 2:42 am Post subject:

The money pit! Well I am sure it can be rather exhaustive on the finances but never more so than that of my other hobbie, I have been forced to give up due to my 2 children. I used to build and race cars, that's a true money pit! At the end of the day all you have for your hard work is (hopefully) a cup, a little coin, and fame, but truth be told all you really have is a beat up machine that requires fixing to make next week. So hopefully this hobbie will be more efficient and atleast it can be passed on to the kids.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 07 Dec, 2006 6:52 am Post subject:

Ronald Ryther · Posted: Thu 07 Dec, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject:

This is what I did with the other pic I couldn't get to host. I think it turned out pretty cool and I hope the information is correct...lol. It will be displayed with the piece, please let me know what changes need me made if any. Sorry about the font being hard to read, the file compression distorted it quite a bit. But using my coffee table (old world leather map top) as the backdrop gives it an interesting feel.

Thanks;
-Ron